SE23 - The great divide.

Not content with making sure people know there are two (apparently) distinctly different parts to the postcode that is SE23, a movement has now started to get part of the postcode, Honor Oak Park of course, re-zoned by TfL as Zone 2.

Cheaper fares, yaaaayyy!!
That is all it is about, honest. Nothing to do with the "oh I live in Zone 2" status statement, or drawing yet another line between "them and us". I have long whined on about the divide in SE23, and how important or over played it really is, however it seems that some will not be content until they make it into a whole new place. Maybe it should get its own postcode HOP1 or something? How about that?

While I admire the desire to get changes which benefit the many, I sometimes think the motives, and conversations they spawn are a little more telling.
For the residents of HOP, who bought their houses in Zone 3 pricing, result. A change of zone is sure to have an impact of sorts on the house prices. For those renting, well that is a different matter, they can no doubt expect their rent to rise next time their contract is up.
Parking, because of the close knit of side streets, with quite a few blocked roads, which HOP is made up of, parking is already a bit of a chore. Regularly discussed on local forums, parking outsides ones house is a bonus not a certainty. With some (to the annoyance of others) pave their gardens to get off street parking.
To imagine that other commuters will not be attracted to the area is nothing less than ignorant. For those between Forest Hill and HOP stations, the obvious choice would be to head towards HOP for the preferential travel pricing. Not to mention those who drive in from other areas and park near FH station. The obvious choice would be to head nearer HOP and travel to and from there.

Should HOP get re-zoned, how long before there is uproar and calls for residential parking zones to be extended through the streets?

Another unconsidered side effect is local businesses. many businesses get a fair bit of trade from commuters as they pass the shops on their way to and from work. Dartmouth Road is booming, London Road is getting a Costa, it's all going so well. Perry Vale shops also get a bit of passing trade from that end of the area.
Now take away all those people who could do their foot commute to HOP instead, or indeed park closer to HOP and walk through the back streets. All that passing trade for FH, gone.

The arguments being made about where is the centre of London, how randomly is was chosen, etc seems to ramble on a bit, but the quote below sheds a little light on the matter.

The centre of London is often given as the Charles I statue south of Trafalgar Square. It's a handy convention for measuring distances to and from London. But where is the geometric centre?

Back in 2010, we did a little experiment. We pasted a map of Greater London onto cardboard, cut out the map, and then tried to balance it on a pin-head. The balance point, also known as the centre of gravity, can be said to be the geometric centre of London. Turns out that Lambeth North tube station is the centre of the city. 

https://londonist.com/2014/04/where-is-the-centre-of-london-an-update

Interesting eh. It isn't a dart thrown at a dart board, or some cunning person from Forest Hill who wanted to persecute those who he envied as they lived in the modern Utopia known as Honor Oak Park. It was done eons ago, when mapping London's road networks etc was done, and those signs started to appear with how far it was to London. A central point was decided long before TfL came into existence.

Just before I wrap up this latest whine, I thought I would refer back once again to The Londonist. You see this whole re-zoning thing has been done before, the conversations had, and the points made. Read all about it in the comments section of this old post. It also has a somewhat more geographically accurate map of London and the zones too.
https://londonist.com/2014/01/mapped-londons-oyster-zone-boundaries


Til next time, I will carry on observing the threads of discussions on the internet, and watch with amazement as yet another thing which won't really impact me unfolds, and is decided. Something some other people who are not local enough, or involved should maybe consider doing too.  #JustSayin

Dear SE23...

I have lived in you for 45 years, over 3/4 of my life now, and we have seen some great times together. Your streets have taught me many life lessons, as well as burned me at times (my own stupid fault). You are my home, the place I miss when I am away, and the views of your rooftops, especially the church that peeks out at the top of my road, are always a welcome sight.

I have lived elsewhere, I have visited many places, but have always felt most comfortable right back within your streets.

My childhood was spent exploring the local roads. Finding all those alleyways, and cul-de-sacs hidden away from the view of every day life. Absolute gems of architecture, which I have grown to respect with age, and of course the odd blot on the landscape.

From a young child, to a man now in his 40's, you have shown me the values of a home, rather than a place to live, and I hope as the years go by, we will continue to have a wonderful relationship.

But..... SE23, there is a problem. It's not me, it's not you...... IT'S THEM !!!
Who the hell are these entitled arseholes who have moved in? When did SE23 become full of pompous idiots who demand all their demands are met. We want this shop, we don't like this company, who are these people who have parties, it's too light, dark, grey, green..... Please, make them go away!

We were happy for so long. All the people who have spent their lives here with us, growing with the area, seeing businesses come and go. The Swiss Cottage, Woolworths, The Golden Griddle, the old petrol station on Waldram Park Road.... So many memories of days gone by, but all replaced by modern day businesses or building, most of which I welcome. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but as a whole, I love you SE23.

So back to those people. They are ruining what we have. The spillover from other local areas, reluctant to say they simply could not afford to live elsewhere, they tell us they are part of the "gentrification" of the area. The new breed, the start of a movement to bring the area up to date, and with the times.
For starters, some of these people need to understand what gentrification actually is. It is not modernisation, or a slight change in social wealth in an area. It is a bricks up redesign on an area for social development, and pushing out the existing people.
Let's get one thing straight here, we (the natives of the area) ain't going nowhere. Don't like us, don't like our ways? Simple, don't move here.

Recent years have seen people move to this lovely area, and start smear campaigns about loved locals, made snide comments to damage people and businesses which simply don't fit into their perfect little worlds, and started some sort of movement to turn the area into something it quite simply is not.
SE23, you are beautiful, filled with green spaces, tree lined streets, wide roads, and many lovely people and businesses, but a village, no! Quaint, nope! As for prime for gentrification.... Fuck right off!
I know you know I want what is best for you, I think I have gotten to know you pretty well over the years. So please, sell yourself more to the mainstream, lets see those building projects, the NIMBY arseholes are all crying about, happen. Bring on the chain stores like Costa to give the local independents a kick in the pants where needed. Domino's can't come soon enough, and lets see the good people of SE23 rise up and claim back what is theirs.

No more of this "I want it this way" bullshit. Talk of blocking cycle paths with concrete blocks, just in case mopeds ride through fire gates.... WTF !! What sort of nonsense is this? Who are these people who are moving in to this area? This is not the mindset of South London, this is people who think they live in South Kensington. Get a grip people!!

Now I love people, I love diversity, and I want this to work, I really do SE23. We can all live together in perfect harmony I am sure. We just need to be a bit more picky about some of the people moving in, and let them know where exactly they are moving in to. Streets are no uniquely lined with independent shops, simply because, well..... you are a town, not a village! Lidl and Aldi are popular because, well.... Most people shop with their budgets in mind, and don't let their precious egos get in the way. Good quality food, at affordable prices. Not the same food at over inflated prices, with premium price tags attached.

I think you are worthy of the finest businesses which suit the needs of our area, I really do. However I also know you don't take it to heart when some brands choose not to open branches in your neighbourhood. Usually based on the demographic of the area, and the projected revenues. I think the only people with a problem with this are those who, just for a moment, realise they are not living in the suburban utopia they like to think they are. A momentary reality check, you live in South London, get over yourself you pompous idiot.

SE23, if it is OK with you, I want to renew our vows to one another, just as long as you promise this is just a glitch, and that the madness will end one day. Sure, lets move up the ranks of most desirable places to live, let's celebrate the wonderful area that you really are, but don't let them bully you into over stretching yourself. You are perfect just the way you are.


As a side note... Dear people of the area, if you have lived here over 10-15 years, I am sure you appreciate the area for all it has to offer. There are some great tight knit communities around the area, speaking from personal experience, I know in times of need my neighbours have my back, and we are as one.
If you have moved in over recent years, and are one of these who chooses not to get to know any of your neighbours, or take an immediate dislike to them, well, quite frankly, that is your problem. Please don't move to an area which is loaded with history, family legacies, and so much more, and immediately think that things should be done differently now that you have moved in.

It doesn't work like that, and if you don't like it, do one! Do your research, find out about an area, and neighbourhood, rather than moving in and suddenly expecting to become the head of the house. If you demand certain businesses, don't like the wildlife in an area broken into two districts, one with FOREST in the name and the other with PARK in it, don't move to it!

I am sick and tired of hearing the whining of the primadonnas, complaining that bin men are noisy, mopeds use the streets, their flat white is too milky, or that a frickin pizza place is daring to open locally to them! Get a grip of yourselves, or STFU, please!!

I could go on for ages about this, but can actually feel myself turning into a whining little NIMBY, so am going to go to the spa and have a green tea and meditate for a while....

Seriously though. If you are just moving in, or moved in recently, welcome to the area. Please take some time to get to know your neighbours, hell, just do a leaflet drop with some contact details, and a hi, you don't have to buy everyone hampers, or invite them over for canapes, (thats no how we do things around here!). SE23 is a fantastic area to live. Perfect, no, but it sure as hell doesn't need a Laurence Llewelyn Bowen   make over.... Maybe a little DIY SOS at best :)

I guess it is worth adding, for fairness and balance. There is nothing wrong with hoping for improvements to an area when you move in. Hell, there is no such place as the perfect area. I have no issue with that whatsoever. Nor do I have a problem with new people moving in. It's a free country, and I don't blame you for wanting to move into this lovely area.
The people I speak of a a tiny but very vocal minority, much like those who read this entry in its original form, and took immediate offence, and told me I was wrong, and my words were poison. See, THAT is the problem right there.... Not just an opinion, FACT, I was wrong.