Thank you very much to Bromley Parking

I like to consider myself fair (other of course don't but hey..) So when something I have been moaning about is resolved, its only fair to say so, and not make it look like the 'target' of the other blog entries is still in my bad books.

So a while back I contacted Bromley asking what the outcome of the PCN appeal was, and received back a very short and somewhat informal reply saying what I read as 'oh drop it will you'.

Needless to say my response was fast and forthcoming, and as a result to tweeting the link to the blog entry, received some attention.

Today I received a very polite and detailed response from Bromley Parking, in which they highlighted the vague response initially given, and this time put a bit more meat on the bones as to why the decision had been made to overturn the PCN.
The reason given originally was 'clerical error', however I wanted to know exactly what that meant. To be more precise, the original response to my first appeal pointed out there were signs warning of the CPZ on London Road, on the way into Bromley, where in fact there were not.
As this had been stated in the reason to refuse the appeal, it was deemed (and I agree) an incorrect statement, therefore the PCN was cancelled.

SO, I can officially after just under a year, draw a line under the matter.
Lessons learned are Bromley has a vaguely signed CPZ, so use a car park at all times, and never assume a single yellow is safe.
Also, Bromley appears to have no plans to increase the signage for the said CPZ, so again, use a proper car park to be safe.

I would like to thank Bromley Parking for taking the time to look exhaustively into this matter, and truly appreciate the time being taken to read the blog, consider my point made re the sign location, and get back to me with a polite, detailed response.
I would also like to apologise openly for publishing the names of the parking officers and other staff involved in this whole affair without consulting them or seeking their permission. I will of course edit these out.

FINALLY... an answer from Bromley Parking

Albeit a little blunt, but the outcome is OK I guess.

See below..

<parking@bromley.gov.uk>	4:19 PM (20 minutes ago)

This Penalty Charge Notice was cancelled on February 11^th 2014 and I give below a copy of our waive letter, correctly addressed.

	Our Ref: BY04003116
Michael Snasdell Forest Hill London
	11/02/2014
Dear Sir Penalty Charge Notice: BY04003116 Date Issued: 16/11/2013 Place Issued: ELMFIELD ROAD, BROMLEY Vehicle Registration: T103DBM Served under the Traffic Management Act 2004

Thank you for writing to us.

We have reviewed the Penalty Charge Notice as part of our standard procedures and whilst the penalty was correctly issued, we have withdrawn it owing to an administration error.

Yours sincerely

Parking Support Officer

Bromley clearly have no intention of addressing their CPZ signage, and wanted to be a short on the matter as possible.
I am left wondering what exactly the 'administration error' which caused the cancellation of the ticket was. They had 4 months left to respond to the matter and reject it, the information is STILL online to see now, so the pictures are still there, the ticket is still avaiable also with information on it.

Is this Bromley's way of saying 'we agree' without actually admitting wrong doing? I will be interested to see if any signage around the area has changed, or indeed changes. But with the run up to Christmas soon upon us, im sure they will make up for this ticket tenfold! So if you DO get a ticket and think it is unfair, don't be afraid to appeal, its your right!

Also very strange how the follow up ticket reminder, first appeal decision, and notice to keeper all arrived fine, yet this 'correctly addressed' letter has never been seen. Nor have any emails I have sent prior to this one ever been answered.

All in all Bromley, you have very poor standards when it comes to dealing with members of the public, who you have initiated contact with, regardless of its form. Its very sad that such a seemingly prestigeous local authority, deal with matters where people dare to question you in such a short, rude, and obnoxious manner.

I would reply to the email asking what the error was, but im sure I would be told it was a private matter and cannot be divulged.

Thanks anyway for finally getting back to me and cancelling the ticket, we both know it was the right thing to do.

Time to contact Bromley Parking again!

Nearly a year on, I thought I would take one more crack at getting a response from Bromley about their parking ticket and CPZ..

This has been sent to their main complaints department.

Dear Sir/ Madam,

In November of 2013 I received a PCN from one of your wardens (ref above) which I chose to challenge on the grounds of poor signage in reference to the CPZ the offence was said to have taken place in.
I received a formal response regarding my appeal, which rejected it, and gave me my options.
On receiving my notice to keeper I decided to again appeal on the same grounds.
Since this time I have not heard a word from Bromley on the matter.

My assumption, based on this being a year ago almost now, is that the ticket has been cancelled, and the appeal was successful. Some digging on the internet offered me this advice.
After an appeal against Notice to Owner relating to PCN issued by civil enforcement officer - the council must serve you with a response either accepting or rejecting your appeal (Notice of Rejection) no later than 56 days commencing with the date they received your appeal. If they do not the PCN must be cancelled.

While I feel I know the outcome of this matter, some official confirmation of this would be appreciated.

Requested action...

I would be most grateful for a written confirmation of the outcome of the appeal I sent to Bromley. Stating that the appeal was received, considered and what the official outcome is.

Further to this, if the appeal has in fact been accepted, I would be curious to know what Bromley are doing regarding the signage for the said CPZ, which I sent detailed concerns about.

Parking tickets. My feelings on them.

A while back, Nov if I remember correctly, I was issued with a PCN (parking ticket) from Bromley's parking enforcement people, for apparently parking in a clearly signed CPZ (controlled parking zone). I appealed against this on the basis that I felt the signage was so poor that it was not enforceable, as I had not been correctly and adequately made aware of the restrictions of the area I was parking in.
This argument was backed up with photographic and video evidence from myself. And also further supported by  the contradictions of the letter rejecting my appeal, and the actual signs which exist.

The appeal was rejected on the grounds that they felt that the area was sufficiently signed, and I was informed of locations of these signs.... which DON'T exist.

So as the argument has gone on, I started to question the validity and point of my appeal. Was I just doing this because I didn't want to pay.

Well, all my questions were answered this morning when I received a letter from TfL advising me of a parking penalty on the A205. On checking the details, and thinking for a moment, I did indeed stop there, and realised in a true 'DOH' moment, that I had been out of routine. I would usually stop there briefly on the way to physio after 10am, but on this occasion I was going to an earlier appointment, and it was pre 10am... Silly error!
I drove past just now to check the bay was indeed 10-4, and it was, so I went straight online and paid the fine. Which I should point out is the same price as Bromley's demand.

So my relaxed attitude, and acceptance of wrong doing of this TfL PCN clears up the doubt. I have no issue whatsoever paying a legitimate PCN when it is signed but I have still been stupid, however when a council is too tight, and too arrogant to accept that they don't have correct signage, and just throw their weight about with hefty fines, I take offence, and WILL object!

An open letter to Bromley Parking / LBB

Before I get into the nitty gritty of the whole matter I just want to make something perfectly clear.
I have NO issue with correctly signed and enforced parking restrictions and the subsequent penalties incurred for ignoring or flaunting the parking regulations. During my 20+ years of driving, if I have made the decision to park in the face of the restrictions, I have always sucked it up and paid the fine.

However, I refuse to be tricked, cheated or lied to by an authority who behaves in the way Bromley Council have with their apparent CPZ (Controlled Parking Zone) in Bromley Town Centre.

Visiting last weekend for a quick nip to a local shop I found a yellow line on one of the back streets, checked around for any enforcement signs to see what the restricted hours were, found none within a 'reasonable' distance of the spot, so decided it was OK to park there. Before I go on, YES I know a yellow line means there are parking restrictions of certain hours, but with no enforcement signs, was left assuming weekend, like a lot of other places, were OK.

On returning to my car a little while later (10 mins or so) I was greeted by the sight of a parking enforcement officer taking a picture of my car, and starting to walk away (ticket already on the car). Quickly following her and getting her attention I politely enquired what offence the ticket had been issued for. Her first reaction was to seem a little uncertain as to why I was being so friendly about it. I said I had no issue with her doing her job, but just wanted to enquire where the enforcement signs were, and what the operational hours of the lines in fact were. She very politely replied and told me that 'this is a CPZ because its a very busy area' I asked where the signs were placed in the road I was parked in, she then explained that the signs were in fact as you enter the borough of Bromley (my entry point was approx 3/4 miles from where I parked).
I thanked her for her time and drove home.

On the way home I decided to take a look for the signs that I had missed on the way into Bromley, but was unable to find anything. So today, a week later, I decided to video my trip into Bromley, back to the space I was originally  parked in, and see if I would notice any of these CPZ notifications on the way in.

I should also add that I appealed against the ticket this week, and yesterday received a reply saying they would NOT be cancelling the ticket as they feel there is adequate signage warning of the CPZ, as I had explained my journey into Bromley, they were kind enough even to state the following....'The Controlled Parking Zone signage will be at all entrances to the zone, including London Road.

Taking the information supplied to me by Bromley Parking themselves, I checked carefully as Bromley Hill turned into London Road, and all the way along it until reaching Tweedy Road, which is the route to the town centre.. I can say with 100% confidence that there are NO signs relating to a CPZ along that stretch of London Road. There are advanced traffic warning signs, directions to the car parks, and other various town centre related information signs, but NOTHING about the CPZ.
So first things first Bromley, be sure of something before you try and use it to prove your point.

My recorded journey continued right along Tweedy Road, down into Kentish Way, still nothing other than directions to car parks, most of which are operated by Bromley Parking, so of course they are keen to highlight sources of revenue, and maybe cloak other avenues of revenue like not telling people about the CPZ and the subsequent ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY POUND fine.
Continuing along the journey, along the A21 Kentish Way until the junction with the B228 Masons Hill, so I turned into Masons Hill using the right hand of 2 lanes, and joining the road still in the outside of 2 lanes. Travelling down the hill, just starting to pass a bus stop which has a bus waiting at it, I get stopped in traffic with the bus to my left. The lights ahead at the junction of Westmoreland Road change and I prepare to move off. Suddenly as the bus to my left moves forward and I reach just before the junction of Cromwell Ave, and pass the bus stop, to my amazement there IS a CPZ sign after all. But just the one.

I'm sure you want to see this sign that I have tried to describe to you, so here it is. A few shots I managed to grab after parking up, not the same conditions I had been driving in today or indeed on the day in question, but it will allow me to highlight my issue with it I'm sure.

Using the second image as an example, in traffic, with a number of buses stopping and moving away from the bus stop, or even buses or large vehicles queuing in the left lane, which is a  pretty frequent occurrence due to the traffic lights at Westmoreland Road, it is ENTIRELY possible to completely obscure this one, single, individual CPZ notification. If this were one of a few, had been placed at the traffic lights turning into Masons Hill from Tweedy Road, or if there were more signs as you continue into High St from Masons Hill... Heck if there was even one at the entrance to Elmfield Road where I was parked, I would whole heartidly accept I was in the wrong and had failed to spot signs which were obvious to road users, as the general guidelines of CPZ recommends. But that's not the case.

Instead, Bromley have erected a single, vague, easy to miss, easy to be obscured, hard to tell where it relates to, sign which is about 18" high, on a lamppost by a bus stop, in an area of extremely busy traffic and pedestrian flow, where your attention and concentration would be better spent on the road.

So this is my point to you Bromley. I love visiting Bromley for many activities including shopping, dining, visiting friends, and have no issue paying to park the car parks you provide. It is refreshing to see a council provide quite so much parking for a town centre, although I appreciate some of it is privately managed. However, my point is, as much as I support the penalisation of stupid and selfish parking, while I think paying a fine received in good faith for one of the above acts is justified.... I feel on this occasion you are in the wrong. You have almost purposely been vague about the operational hours of single yellow lines, failed to put up what most people would consider adequate signage to inform users of your imposed CPZ. And then if that was not bad enough, you insult me by trying to tell me there are signs entering the borough which justify the fine you have issued... Where there are quite clearly NOT !
I told you in good faith what route I entered the borough and town centre by, and you have lied in your response, in writing.
I am also curious regarding the line of 'you were allowed to park to load or unload' Where is the sign that informs me THIS act is permitted? Once again, the sheer lack of signage in this location leads to even more confusion

OK, so I have gone on for long enough on this matter, so I shall sum up what the point of all this is.

My points are as follows.

1/ Your CPZ is NOT signed in a sensible and fair manner, in fact it is barely signed at all, which has no doubt led to many unfair and borderline unjustified parking fines being issued.
2/ Your letter rejecting my appeal for the fine to be cancelled is misleading, inaccurate, and offends me that you try and give me information to justify your actions. Only for me to find it not to be true.,
3/ A single sign may 'just about' tick the box for your legal obligations to advise motorists that they are entering a CPZ, but like any road sign, if it can easily be obscured, it can be deemed inadequate, any by some might even be seen as an attempt to flaunt the regulations in your favour.
4/ Finally, your appeal rejection letter notifies me that your decision is final and that I must now wait for the Notice to Owner before I can formally challenge this penalty notice, which as we all know is the line that all authorities love as it clearly really reads 'last chance for a discount, before it goes up to £130'

I shall return to Bromley tomorrow and get much clearer pictures to represent my point when I formally challenge this ticket. And for this I shall request the assistance of someone to take professional standard images, suitable for proper representation. If the findings are in my favour at the representation, I will then seek to recover costs of travelling to Bromley on two occasions, parking costs, and any charge made for the images and video taken.

A letter reflecting the comments in this blog will be sent to LBB by recorded delivery on Monday, and the signature stating the letter is received will be considered that my notice to yourselves, and intention to recover costs, has been received and understood.

I complain and moan about a lot of things in life that are irritating, annoying and even upsetting, but this is one of THE most anger provoking things I have written about in a long time.
Out of the countless signs pointing people to car parks and other things, you put up ONE to just scrape by the regulation.

Not impressed Bromley... NOT impressed.

Please see below the formal letter from Bromley stating their reasons for not cancelling the ticket,