The referendum... The loose ends!

Just thought I would type out some of the things about the whole event I really don't understand. Obviously this is partly due to me having my own views on things, which are clearly not on par with others. After all, that IS what makes us individuals, so I am kinda glad that we don't all feel the same way.

So first up, the count / majority.
Those voting remain - 16,141,241
Those voting leave - 17,410,742

Majority of 1,269,501 (One and a quarter million)

Now, I know that things were close (51.9% / 48.1%) Pretty darn close for 33 million votes, but it is also fair to say that 1.25 million people is quite a chunk of people too. I have seen calls to say that at least a 60% majority would have been considered "democratic" and that this majority is not substantial enough to consider it a win. I disagree. Where was the call for this sized majority before the vote. When there was greater confidence in the remain camp, these things were not raised, when the result went the other way, suddenly the rules and regulations were touted about and the vote called invalid.

Now from where I stand, this was a chance for me to have my say on something. However the vote went, I would be happy to carry on living the way I do. I have no interest in protesting, calling foul play, or getting into a name calling battle with anyone who voted the other way to me. So to me, it is very sad to see the utterly childish behaviour of people from both camps. Trying to discredit the other and damage the reputations of the people who stood on both sides. But more seriously for me, is the fighting between the public and groups who believe this is the beginning of the end.

The amount of stupidity I have seen posted on social media has resulted in me doing some unfollowing, as I am sick and tired of seeing the campaigns against others. Calling people stupid, racist, uneducated, blind, careless and so many other names... For having an opinion on something?! That is truly pathetic, and if you are one of the people pressing share share share on every piece of social media hatred against "the others" that you see, I will be unfollowing you very soon too.

In short, the people of the country were asked to make a decision. Lots of information was provided, most of which was hype and bullshit of course. Emphasis on promises which were badly worded and untrue, scaremongering about collapsing economies, bans on trade, eviction of immigrants etc. Both sides should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, as should anyone who propagated this BS. Most of it was written in such a way that it was nothing more than click-bait but filled with hatred.
How many people were actually in any way impressed upon by this, or voted according to what they heard and believed is a mystery, and I really do hope that the number is small. There are plenty of things out there to read up on that can help the average Joe make a mildly informed decision.

Sadly of course, the media were VERY quick to highlight some people they had interviewed who said had they known the Brexit vote would win, they would have voted the other way, and are now wishing they had voted remain. Well, all I can say to that is, maybe we need to have an intelligence test before allowing people to vote. People making statements like that just goes to show the number of people who vote without thinking, and have an effect either way on the outcome of something important.... Then whinge and whine about it for years to come.

This reaction of course has been seized by the media, and thrown out there as wide spread discontent throughout the UK. As have speeches from Remain MP's , saying they will fight for fairness, and wont let this change happen.

First thing worth noting. The vote is a notice of intention at best, and not a full blown exit movement. No one has won or lost a thing yet. The plan for the road ahead is vastly under reported, and is very much unclear. But somehow, some fortune tellers seem to have the whole thing written out in a mystical book, and can tell you without any doubt that Britain is done for! Amazingly, the guaranteed vision for the future is pretty word for word what the Remain propaganda was. Such visionaries, these people are amazing.

Sadly, as these visionaries share their dread for the future, another group of people think they too have seen the future, a future they have dreamed of for many years now, and one they believe is about to begin. The mass eviction of immigrants, the closing of the borders, and the reclamation of the "English way" even though it was BRITAIN that voted, and that includes 3 other countries within it.
Yes of course the extreme right were always going to get their knickers in a twist. Remain would have triggered immediate protest and hatred, and it seems that Leave has done the exact same reaction.
Complete lunatics running around, showing their true racist colours (ironic term maybe) and openly abusing people who appear to be from a different background to the classic demographic of "white British"
Just to clarify at this point, anyone displaying this kind of attitude or behaviour can quite simply fuck off somewhere else themselves. The EU Referendum was NEVER about throwing people out of the country, hatred towards other races and religions, nor a way to get across the message of the tiny minded, racist bigots out there who believe they stand for the masses, but really just irritate the hell out of people with their thug like "Ugg, me man" like caveman behaviour.
If anyone needs deporting, or putting away somewhere, it is you lot, not "them lot" as you would say.

Now the big problem.... YOU!
OK not all of you, but I bet someone will read this blog, and be the same sort of person who reads a shock headline like "Facebook will make your profile and all your posts public at midnight tonight" , then not only believe it, but share it wildly, panicking at its implications, and wanting to warn other small minded people to do the same.
That said, to be reading this part of the blog entry, they would have had to go through quite a few paragraphs, which is not the way of the thicko. They just read the headline and make all their decisions based on that. Much like the winning whiners who regret their vote being the majority.

The future.
There are many opinions on the vision of the future, from the more grounded people out there, not the doomsday bunch. Anything ranging from the UK becoming a completely independent nation, and the EU dying a slow and painful death, to the UK invoking Article 50, and spending the next two years working out a way to remain, but under an entirely new agreement, with more freedom and control for the areas which the masses in the UK object to the EU having a hold over. The opinions range wildly.
It seems at the moment though that the future is trying to be decided by one man on his own, Jean Claude Juncker.
This man seems to speak with pure hatred in his mind. Demanding that the UK immediately start the exit process. To be honest, the way I have seen the man speak, with his sulky behaviour and fits of rage about the UK daring to decide they don't like the EU, it reminded me of this video clip.

Unhappy with what was being said to him, he spat his dummy and had a childish rant about the outcome. Even other EU members are saying he needs to calm down, and talk about this sensibly. I am sure that deep within his mind, the thought that other EU member states are now considering their own referendum, and the fear is growing that the EU will start to crumble faster and faster. The slightest sniff of Germany wishing to hold a similar referendum would provisionally mark the end of the EU as we know it.

What I take from all this, even with the other states only talking of referendums, is that the EU is finally being held to account, and feels vulnerable. Maybe time to have more open and diplomatic talks about restructuring are upon us. Maybe the results of the UK referendum do NOT mark the end of our membership of the after all. But instead give the government more clout and leverage to work with. Maybe this is the point where individual countries can fully negotiate their own terms of being a part of the EU, rather than the all in or all out approach which seems to be preferred.

Seeing the mass of support for the UK MEP's in the European Parliament is hardly surprising. A room filled with highly paid MEP's, most of which still believe in a unified Europe. Strange that most seem to clap loudly at those UK MEP's promising to fight for the UK to remain. But it makes a great story, and fantastic viewing on TV, so let us let the media once again propagate their own beliefs as facts, and put fear into the minds of those who have chosen to take a chance on the future of the UK.

Don't get me wrong. I am not calling the masses on either side right or wrong. We all had a say, and the majority of the 33 million who voted, did so with a clear enough mind of their own, to decide which way they wished to see the vote go. In my eyes, that is a democracy. In fact, letting the racist and moronic individuals have a say too, is also a clear sign of an unbiased democracy. To then try and redefine the word to best suit your cause is just sad really. Finding a translation or definition which suits the message you want to spread amongst others.... Well that to me is comparable to something else we see a lot of. Those radicals who retranslate any religious writings to those of hatred, to justify their beliefs and causes. Sad really, but true.

Right now we have a few issues. Mass hysteria being spread by the genuinely concerned expressing their educated guesses, and then the media who just want to see protests, riots and widespread unrest. Of course, the media are supported by a whole bunch of mindless thugs who think they have just been given a free pass to be an arsehole.
Dear thugs, the majority of 17 million did not vote Leave because you are a racist idiot. In fact, the majority voted with non of that in mind whatsoever. Please don't take the UK's vote as a sign that you are supported in being a small minded, ignorant, racist twat. It really wasn't

Then there is the EU itself. Clearly wriggling and writhing from the blow of the UK's vote. But instead of acting like the mature voices of the nations they serve, they are acting like spoiled brats. Throwing stones because the UK took its ball home. It might come back out to play later, but for now there is anger and frustration, and a whole load of feet stomping. Sadly the loudest and most outspoken of them is Juncker. Protesting, demanding, and waiving his hands furiously, ushering the UK  away, demanding Article 50 is invoked ASAP, and promising that the split will NOT be a happy one. Is this really the right man to head a union of nations. Representing so many different cultures with a voice of such childish hatred? I wonder how many other nations are cringing at the message that is being sent to the UK on their behalf.

Anyway, that is me for now.
I really do sincerely hope that all this "justified" racism, and petty squabbling amongst people ends soon. I know I have managed to have civilised conversations with many people about this subject, even with opposing views, and the outcome has been one of a respectful disagreement on the matter. Now if only the people who are paid and in a position to do this could do the same. Oh and if the racist twats could just go away somewhere, like a quarry!

My thoughts on the referendum results.

I haven't said too much really since the results were released, mainly because I am already sick and tired of the insults and infighting the result has caused. I can't help but wonder if it would be identical if it had gone the other way. Would the Leave camp be demanding a re-run, and saying how un-democratic the first one was? Would the media be saying how terrible the road ahead is now that we were remaining in the EU?

To a degree, I am sure that which ever way it went, there was always a whole host of scaremongering stories, and bullshit facts to try and make people feel it went the wrong way. Some peoples reactions have been depressingly hilarious (yes, that's a real thing!). Depressing that they voted the way they did, based on their hilariously stupid level of intelligence. "If I knew we would really leave, I would have voted stay". Right... Remove these peoples right to vote immediately, and forever more!

I am also impressed at the number of experts, who have already predicted the future of the UK, and can already tell us we WILL go into recession, we WILL struggle to trade, as well as many other guaranteed outcomes. I am however shocked that the same people don't actively have a role in politics or the economy. Such a waste, so talented and knowledgeable, yet only ever show their true abilities when they have something to complain about.

One thing I do know for certain is the immediate future is uncertain. And all the certainties touted about by worriers and scaremongerers is nothing but over hyped bullshit, worded to make it sound like the end of the world is nigh! Yes, the markets have taken a fall, and the £ against the $. But truth be told, they always wobble at times of uncertainty, and usually mainly caused by the media and the huge money moguls making sure they profit from everyone elses panic. Regardless of the impact, there is a quick buck to be made.

In the meantime, everyone is at each others throats, hatred is burning brightly, and people are being judged on a decision they made as an individual. A democratic vote, and expression of their opinion. Probably one of the simplest and fairest votes that has happened in a few generations. IN or OUT. Plain and simple. The majority said OUT, and so it was.... Or so it should have been.
Instead we have people wanting to rewrite the meaning of democracy, the meaning of majority, and begging for a second crack at the whip, and having a second vote to make sure the outcome was fair next time around.
Suggestions of vote tampering, stupid viral panics like "take a pen so they can't rub your vote out" have filled news feeds, and sadly, VERY sadly, lots of people have fallen for this shit, and run with it. Yup, these people were allowed to vote too. Scary isn't it.

Thankfully, the outcome of the vote makes it clear that there are more normal people than nutters, and most of the votes on both sides were cast with a mildly educated mind. Don't think for one minute I am suggesting that any remain voter is somehow mentally inadequate, even if the same was suggested about those voting the other way. See this is how childish it all gets. Name calling. SERIOUSLY !!
There was a vote, it was decided, one side didn't win, so resorted to name calling? I just don't get it. I would understand it more of the future of either direction was known, and we were all sure that we had just voted to have dinner in the gunk tank or something. But I can guarantee, not ONE person can actually guarantee what the future holds. Nothing solid anyway. But in the absence of any information, lets all be terribly civilised and call each other names until we know for sure. Then when we do see the road ahead, one group will pretend they never said a word, and the other will scream "I told you so!"

What is nice to see is that this isn't a UK trait. Far from it in fact. With the big wigs of the EU vowing to make the UK suffer for their decision, and make it an unfriendly separation, it is clear to see that this display of pettiness is a very human thing indeed, and anyone who feels aggrieved by the outcome of something, can just be childish and immature just to spite the other side.
Displays like this are very worrying indeed, and make you question what sort of people we actually want to be in any sort of relationship with.
Not for one second am I saying that most politicians are great, I'm not that stupid! But to see a face slapping head of an organisation as big as the EU, spit his dummy and vow to destroy a country for daring to want out...... I can't take someone like that seriously.

Either way, back to the main subject, the road ahead.
I am optimistic about it. Not expecting everyone to become multi millionaires by the end of 2020, nor expecting the social and financial tiers of the country to somehow merge in the coming years. But neither do I think we will unwind and collapse in a broken mess on the bottom of the sea, with no quality of life.

I will go out on a limb here and say the following.
As many are predicting, Boris will run for leadership, then hold a GE in the hope of becoming the legitimate PM. Voted in democratically (whatever definition of that we have by then). Naturally this would be the position needed to really drive the exit (renegotiate) from the EU, so the sooner the better, as we can really start to get stuck into the ins and outs of what it means.
Now I put renegotiate in brackets, because something deep inside of me feels that this is all the referendum was every really intended to cause. The threat of an exit, the hope we will stay, leading to a very strongly worded remain negotiation taking place. Forcing the hand, and making sure that certain aspects of the EU which have had many people on edge for years now, being negotiated away. And the EU agreement returning to its roots of trade and movement, with some genuine, hard hitting legislation staying in place.

This guess is backed up by the other countries who have seemingly joined the queue for the exit. Stating their interests in holding a national  referendum for their own countrymen who may also want their say. Maybe it isn't such a bad thing to have a generational democratic vote. Rather than one decision made 40+ years ago just ploughing on even though it is becoming something our parents understood it to be in 1973.
The other countries considering a referendum is also on the list of things I predicted would happen. I believe in reality, like having a bad boss at work. All the workers in the office have been sick of it for a while now, and as soon as Bob stood up and downed tools, everyone else sees their chance and copies. It doesn't mean everyone will quit. Some will, some just want a raise or more holidays, but the UK is the catalyst in a movement here, and as the weeks go on, we could see the EU listening very closely to a few of its unhappy members. And with numbers comes power.
Can the head of the EU really treat whole countries like dirt for daring to want change? Especially if there is more than one country?

Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a full on rant, just venting my thoughts on the matter.
I know many will disagree, however just know I am exercising my democratic right to voice my opinion, and ignore anyone else, and the facts they wish to present to me in argument of my opinions.

One other thing before I get, something I don't get.
Jeremy Corbyn. He is being torn to pieces for not getting behind the remain campaign. So I have two questions....
1/ Would more people really have gone out and voted remain if a single man had endorsed the campaign. Are people really that narrow minded that they need telling by ONE person how to vote?
and
2/ I don't understand how a shadow cabinet, a group of mature and trusted adults, chosen for their beliefs and abilities, can overnight turn their back on the person THEY among others voted in as their leader. Making scathing remarks about their ability to lead. They were fine yesterday, but now that a vote went the wrong way, the person isn't fit for purpose? Strange to me.

Anyway, I'm done now, that is far more than I originally had to say.
Only other thing to say is it is SUCH a shame that what was a simple (while very deep rooted) question became about race, nationality, wealth, religion, and politics. Shame on anyone who has used any form of hate to try and get across their disappointment of the outcome of the referendum,

Every dog has its day...

Everything in life has a finite time span for being relevant. And when the day comes when it is no longer king of the hill there are two ways to go. Gracefully, or kicking and screaming.

For me, going out gracefully, and being remembered for your greatness and service is far more appealing that throwing tantrums and having to be removed by security. Remembered only for that last childish outburst.

Of course, the reasons for falling from the top are plentiful, so I suppose your actions are sometimes determined by what happened to bring it all about.

Imagine, spinning plates, putting on an amazing show and gathering a crowd to watch your amazing show. As the crowds gather, and the spotlight gets brighter, you lose concentration on the plates.
As the first one hits the floor, you turn in panic to react to the situation, frantically running back and forth trying to keep things going. One by one, they drop and smash, until finally you have managed to get 10% of them safely spinning again.
Turning back to your adorning crowd, unsurprisingly most are gone!

Looking to where they have gone, you see them across the way at a different attraction. Not plate spinning, but juggling. So you have two choices, keep your plates spinning, and protect what you have left. Keep the remaining audience happy. Or take your plates down, give up on your show, and start throwing them at the juggler and its audience, hoping to take them down as well as yourself. The old "if I can't have it, you can't have it" play.

Usually if you go with the latter, you tend to be remembered for your last actions, and not the shows before that.

By now you are probably wondering what the hell I am talking about, so let's cut the bullshit, and get to the crux of the matter.

When a local forum runs its course, and stops adapting to the changing population of the area it covers, and allows political and personal beliefs to drive how it is run, it can start to lose its following.  Failure or refusal to allow certain topics or opinions to be aired can also lead to a very closed environment, and become unattractive to not only the current local residents and users, but also to the every growing new population.

So another one pops up, fresh and open minded. It starts to attract your current audience, and gathers pace rapidly. The two ways to approach it are a/ keep going, its no threat, its a different approach, or b/ go to war and throw everything you have at it, including your dignity.

Having been at the forefront of forums, from back in early 2000 until about 2006 running a very popular online community. Lots of people and opinions. Lots of random conversations turning into life changing matters. Friendships forged, leading to marriage and the birth of children. I think it's fair to say that it was quite challenging. But with the birth of Facebook, and the changing times, the day came when it was done. Allowing that to happen progressively, and folding at the right time meant I retained all the friendships I had made, and the whole venture is remembered fondly.

In this case, the local community is not following this model, and instead of being sensible about it, and rolling with things, the owner has decided war is the only way.
Now, let me be honest here. As the plates started falling, the right thing to do is salvage what you can, then start putting plates back on poles, newer more colourful ones, and attract the crowd back. If you want to fight hard, go for it, but show you have something worth fighting for. Don't start throwing plate fragments, hitting your old audience with them, and hope they will come back to see the same old show again.

Sadly, this is not the approach taken, and rather than going with a two pronged approach of promotion and revamping, a route of "destroy the other forum" has been taken.
Reporting of advertising to local authorities, sock puppet accounts on the new forum, trying to stir things up, only to run away and ask for it all to be removed again, constant changing of topic names on the old forum to mimic the new one, buying Google Adwords relating to the new one and pointing them at your own forum, buying domain names again hoping to snare people looking for the other one.
As someone recently said, "imitation is the greatest form of flattery" , and it IS ! So very true.

Sadly it doesn't end with imitation, and goes further to manipulation. Messing around with Wikipedia editing entries in your favour, deleting entries by the new forum, rewording entries to your own advantage. Lets get something straight, Wikipedia is NOT a playground, or somewhere childish battles should be fought. Now it is starting to get pathetic, and borderline personal.

So, Steve....
Where does all this end?
I know there is a strong revenue stream for you from your forum, somehow managing to bamboozle your advertisers into believing that the 40,000 visitors a month (85-90% of which are search bots I presume) and the 6,000 members (of which about 15 still use the forum, and 1,500 are probably sock puppet accounts of your own and others) somehow generate value for money. Surely anyone with any dignity and common sense can see that the interaction on the forum has dropped away to a borderline sustainable level now. But I suppose as long as you can keep prying money out of their hands, you feel like it is a worthwhile venture to keep going.

Sadly, it seems, that actually giving a toss about the local community and their needs is the bottom of the importance list now, if even still on it at all. If it were of any interest, I am sure the forum would have been upgraded over time, and offered more to its user than admin filtered PM's, personal vendettas with users occasionally blocking their account as you don't like what they said, and disappearing posts because they don't interest you, you don't agree with them, or simply don't like the person who posted it.... Without ever meeting them, that's the hilarious part.

When the new forum popped up, it was launched with the intention of filling a gap in the online resources of the local community. A friendly and social approach to get people working together with others in their community, and a fresh spin on an old idea. Getting people out from behind their screens, being real people not just a user name, and creating a happy and self supporting community for the SE23 area.
Not a threat, not a take-down, not a local coup, just something new. Plenty of space for both to co-exist, with the option along the way to work together or benefit from the growth.

What we have ended up with instead is a full on pissing contest. The old vs the new. Offended somehow that someone else would dare to offer the local community (in which they live) a breath of fresh air, and some new options. It is an evolving world where options are obligatory, and people expect to be giving a choice. So to somehow take offence that this would happen is a little small minded.
Surely if you felt that you had something real to offer SE23, you would make an honest and open stand. Come out from behind the "Admin" moniker , speak openly, have your say and show you care. Stand up for the cause you apparently believe in so much.
Rather than hiding behind fake forum accounts, sabotaging online references, and trying to trick people onto your forum by using pseudonyms similar to the new forum.  All I see so far are cowardly sucker punches in the dark, which consist of damaging the name of an upstart, rather than justifying the continued use and following of what is quite frankly an old, tired forum which exists on fitting in with the online clique.

I hope that the stupid behaviour ends soon, and the people of SE23 can make a good, honest, well educated decision of which forum is right for them, and maybe even use both.

On a serious note, do things openly and in your own name. If you truly believe you are fighting for a good honest cause, do it with dignity, and show the community you are trying to convince you care, that you really do!
As for the advertisers...

PLEASE NOTE..
These are the sole opinions and comments of Michael Snasdell (real name, feel free to Google me) and not those of any other forum for the SE23 area, or anywhere else.
Any name calling is driven by my own opinions and interactions (online) with Steve Shaw and se23(dot)com