From the day it was suggested a Costa coffee would open in Forest Hill, there has been a very noticable objection towards it. Over the years the area has built up a good base of independent coffee shops, and businesses from where one can purchase a nice, freshly made coffee of any description. It is indeed fantastic to see that not only are these businesses thriving and even receiving critical acclaim in London directories, but also that they have such a loyal and passionate customer base.
Hopefully this customer base which has served them so well will continue to frequent their establishments, and keep the cash flowing, and customer base growing. For me however, the appeal has just never been there, for reasons which I will get into in a minute.
Meanwhile, the huge brand which is Costa, which lets face it, was once a small indie, but managed to get on the gravy train and boom, globally, has decided the time is right to open in Forest Hill. But why people cry, we have plenty of indies who make amazing coffee. So let's look at why.
Staffing for one. Most chains will have more staff in them than a small independent. This means there is a production line in effect, and when a few customers are waiting, generally it is a little quicker to be served. Not a hard fact, but an obvious occasional advantage.
Then of course there is the known quantity of their offerings. Unlike independents, Costa have almost a set menu, and something you can become familiar with. For some people this is important, for others less so. Either way it enables a customer unfamiliar with an area to walk in and order something they are comfortable and confident with.
For me, the big thing is probably the bit that puts the aficionados off. That is the space, and anonymity of the place. One of the most common comments about places like Costa is they lack character and the personal touch. Me, I like that.
Some people like to regularly meet friends, greet regulars and make lots of conversation. Enjoying the surrounding of a buzzing (literally) coffee shop, and all that comes with it. I am the complete opposite.
As I say, I appreciate where people are coming from with their doubts, unfortunately it seems the same graces are not offered the other way.
For me, I like to be able to go to a place where I can separate myself from the buzz, have a bit of space to myself and my mind. While others around me can enjoy their conversations, and mingle with their friends, I like to be able to unwind, out of the way, in a corner. Sometimes get the laptop out and do a bit of writing, while topping up with hot chocolate, the occasional coffee, and of course a slice of cake.
Not everyone is the same, we are all very different creatures, who thrive in different environments. For some that is a very personal experience in a small local coffee shop. Known by name, regular order, and families asked after. For others, and I am 100% sure I am not alone here, it is about being out, gaining confidence, experiencing the buzz of day to day life, while being at arms length from it all, and feeling comfortable.
Hopefully this is where Costa comes into the mix, at least for me. And I sincerely hope that anyone else who goes through the same emotions as me in society can feel the same way too.
For some this will make sense, some will mock, and some simply reject. But whatever the reaction, I just wanted to put my view across as openly and concisely as possible, and take a break from the mockery and jokes I make about the subject the rest of the time.
Here's to all our local independents thriving, and Costa sticking around for those of us who simply feel more comfortable being in a chain coffee shop.
I just want to add, in case I am not being clear enough. Anxiety and depression suck. Being able to get back into society at a gentle pace is key to recovery, and is something I am truly passionate about. Mental health is misunderstood by so many people, but those who do understand anxiety, will hopefully appreciate this a little more.
We are all different, choice is a wonderful thing, and we just got a little more choice in the area.
Showing posts with label SE23. Show all posts
Showing posts with label SE23. Show all posts
Friday, November 16, 2018
Tuesday, October 9, 2018
SE23 - The great divide.
Not content with making sure people know there are two (apparently) distinctly different parts to the postcode that is SE23, a movement has now started to get part of the postcode, Honor Oak Park of course, re-zoned by TfL as Zone 2.
Cheaper fares, yaaaayyy!!
That is all it is about, honest. Nothing to do with the "oh I live in Zone 2" status statement, or drawing yet another line between "them and us". I have long whined on about the divide in SE23, and how important or over played it really is, however it seems that some will not be content until they make it into a whole new place. Maybe it should get its own postcode HOP1 or something? How about that?
While I admire the desire to get changes which benefit the many, I sometimes think the motives, and conversations they spawn are a little more telling.
For the residents of HOP, who bought their houses in Zone 3 pricing, result. A change of zone is sure to have an impact of sorts on the house prices. For those renting, well that is a different matter, they can no doubt expect their rent to rise next time their contract is up.
Parking, because of the close knit of side streets, with quite a few blocked roads, which HOP is made up of, parking is already a bit of a chore. Regularly discussed on local forums, parking outsides ones house is a bonus not a certainty. With some (to the annoyance of others) pave their gardens to get off street parking.
To imagine that other commuters will not be attracted to the area is nothing less than ignorant. For those between Forest Hill and HOP stations, the obvious choice would be to head towards HOP for the preferential travel pricing. Not to mention those who drive in from other areas and park near FH station. The obvious choice would be to head nearer HOP and travel to and from there.
Should HOP get re-zoned, how long before there is uproar and calls for residential parking zones to be extended through the streets?
Another unconsidered side effect is local businesses. many businesses get a fair bit of trade from commuters as they pass the shops on their way to and from work. Dartmouth Road is booming, London Road is getting a Costa, it's all going so well. Perry Vale shops also get a bit of passing trade from that end of the area.
Now take away all those people who could do their foot commute to HOP instead, or indeed park closer to HOP and walk through the back streets. All that passing trade for FH, gone.
The arguments being made about where is the centre of London, how randomly is was chosen, etc seems to ramble on a bit, but the quote below sheds a little light on the matter.
https://londonist.com/2014/04/where-is-the-centre-of-london-an-update
Interesting eh. It isn't a dart thrown at a dart board, or some cunning person from Forest Hill who wanted to persecute those who he envied as they lived in the modern Utopia known as Honor Oak Park. It was done eons ago, when mapping London's road networks etc was done, and those signs started to appear with how far it was to London. A central point was decided long before TfL came into existence.
Just before I wrap up this latest whine, I thought I would refer back once again to The Londonist. You see this whole re-zoning thing has been done before, the conversations had, and the points made. Read all about it in the comments section of this old post. It also has a somewhat more geographically accurate map of London and the zones too.
https://londonist.com/2014/01/mapped-londons-oyster-zone-boundaries
Til next time, I will carry on observing the threads of discussions on the internet, and watch with amazement as yet another thing which won't really impact me unfolds, and is decided. Something some other people who are not local enough, or involved should maybe consider doing too. #JustSayin
Cheaper fares, yaaaayyy!!
That is all it is about, honest. Nothing to do with the "oh I live in Zone 2" status statement, or drawing yet another line between "them and us". I have long whined on about the divide in SE23, and how important or over played it really is, however it seems that some will not be content until they make it into a whole new place. Maybe it should get its own postcode HOP1 or something? How about that?
While I admire the desire to get changes which benefit the many, I sometimes think the motives, and conversations they spawn are a little more telling.
For the residents of HOP, who bought their houses in Zone 3 pricing, result. A change of zone is sure to have an impact of sorts on the house prices. For those renting, well that is a different matter, they can no doubt expect their rent to rise next time their contract is up.
Parking, because of the close knit of side streets, with quite a few blocked roads, which HOP is made up of, parking is already a bit of a chore. Regularly discussed on local forums, parking outsides ones house is a bonus not a certainty. With some (to the annoyance of others) pave their gardens to get off street parking.
To imagine that other commuters will not be attracted to the area is nothing less than ignorant. For those between Forest Hill and HOP stations, the obvious choice would be to head towards HOP for the preferential travel pricing. Not to mention those who drive in from other areas and park near FH station. The obvious choice would be to head nearer HOP and travel to and from there.
Should HOP get re-zoned, how long before there is uproar and calls for residential parking zones to be extended through the streets?
Another unconsidered side effect is local businesses. many businesses get a fair bit of trade from commuters as they pass the shops on their way to and from work. Dartmouth Road is booming, London Road is getting a Costa, it's all going so well. Perry Vale shops also get a bit of passing trade from that end of the area.
Now take away all those people who could do their foot commute to HOP instead, or indeed park closer to HOP and walk through the back streets. All that passing trade for FH, gone.
The arguments being made about where is the centre of London, how randomly is was chosen, etc seems to ramble on a bit, but the quote below sheds a little light on the matter.
The centre of London is often given as the Charles I statue south of Trafalgar Square. It's a handy convention for measuring distances to and from London. But where is the geometric centre?
Back in 2010, we did a little experiment. We pasted a map of Greater London onto cardboard, cut out the map, and then tried to balance it on a pin-head. The balance point, also known as the centre of gravity, can be said to be the geometric centre of London. Turns out that Lambeth North tube station is the centre of the city.
https://londonist.com/2014/04/where-is-the-centre-of-london-an-update
Interesting eh. It isn't a dart thrown at a dart board, or some cunning person from Forest Hill who wanted to persecute those who he envied as they lived in the modern Utopia known as Honor Oak Park. It was done eons ago, when mapping London's road networks etc was done, and those signs started to appear with how far it was to London. A central point was decided long before TfL came into existence.
Just before I wrap up this latest whine, I thought I would refer back once again to The Londonist. You see this whole re-zoning thing has been done before, the conversations had, and the points made. Read all about it in the comments section of this old post. It also has a somewhat more geographically accurate map of London and the zones too.
https://londonist.com/2014/01/mapped-londons-oyster-zone-boundaries
Til next time, I will carry on observing the threads of discussions on the internet, and watch with amazement as yet another thing which won't really impact me unfolds, and is decided. Something some other people who are not local enough, or involved should maybe consider doing too. #JustSayin
Thursday, October 4, 2018
Dear SE23.... Part 2.
So the other day, I seem to have upset some people by suggesting that the attitudes of people in the area were changing, and in my opinion, for the worse.
Comments about my last blog suggested my words were poison, I was caught in tribalism, and that I was unwilling to accept new people, businesses and buildings in the area.
Well, that was already a slight misrepresentation of what I had actually said. I have never said change is bad. I have however said that moving to an area which doesn't have all the boxes ticked, and them stomping your feet that they are not ticked, is a little weak, to say the least.
What I missed out from the initial blog was the outcry of disappointment when new businesses, not to the liking of some, make a proposal to open. There is a very clear message in some peoples comments that a similar business of a slightly more affluent nature would be welcomed. However as it is not the business they were hoping for, it can go to hell.
Example being the Aldi proposal in Bell Green. Opposed by some for genuine reasons, but for others, it just wasn't the retailer they wanted, so it should be opposed and blocked by any means necessary.
Today, a proposal has come to light which will see the redevelopment of a local business, and change it into a similar business, with a few storeys added to the height of the new building, and the inclusion of a 66 room hotel. God forbid !
Seeing some of the reactions, I get it. Concerns of daylight, being overlooked, and other such concerns. All understandable. However, once again, the air of snobbery and NIMBY raises it's ugly head, and the protests begin. Throwing up all sorts of reasons to oppose the proposal, some almost laughable in fact.
I don't live locally enough to the proposed site to really have a genuine opinion on it, not one which has any bearing on the matter. However, my general feeling towards it are much the same as the similar proposal nearby which is also a hotel and retail building, and that is, change is good.
Going back to my blog, and the comments made on it, this is exactly why the comments were "incorrect" so to speak. These are both pretty big changes to the area local to my house. They are no doubt going to have a number of impacts on the local roads, increased population of the area etc. I have no issues with that at all. However I bet that some of the people who said I was tribalised in my ways, are the same people who would object to these proposals.
Seeing two hotel companies willing to invest large sums into new businesses in the area is surely a good thing. Just because preferred retailers are not currently interested in moving into the area, surely seeing other businesses making their move is a positive for the area? Surely it shows that certain sectors feel there is room for growth, so the area has potential for now and the future. Is this not the exact thing I was told I was against, that I am supporting openly here?
So confusing!
So to clarify... I am all for change, I am all for the bettering of the area. More businesses, more jobs, more homes.. What I am against are people who pick and choose based on certain criteria, and go out of their way to be obstructive, purely because its not the business they wanted. Independent pizza shops pop up all over the place, hurrah, Domino's planned. DOWN WITH DOMINO'S !!
New supermarket planned, is it M&S or Waitrose? No? SAY NO TO NEW SUPERMARKET!
Does it make more sense now. You either support development and growth, or you don't. If you are going to be vocal about your selective mindset, expect to be called out on it.
SE23 has celebrated independent coffee shops, and that is something to be proud of for sure. So why is a Costa such a bad thing? More choice for those who prefer the chain. NO! May those people be damned for their poor taste in coffee, you should drink REAL coffee!!
There are so many examples of this selective NIMBYism. Going back to hotels.. We want SE23 to grown, we want it to be more affluent, have better shopping options, venues for entertaining, and fine dining etc. However we don't want hotels. Hotels which bring more people to the area, increasing footfall, increasing demands on local businesses, and making the area somewhat more desirable to the exact businesses which would turn a NIMBY to a YIMBY in a heartbeat.
As I was told, see the bigger picture.
With the Overground now in SE23, things are changing for sure, after all it was after the announcement of it coming to the area that the development of some new buildings started, the house prices rose, and the area became "more desirable". With the first wave of growth and development done and settled, other changes locally and to the transport infrastructure once again put SE23 on the map. However this time (since the explosion of social media) the voices of opposition are loud.
Time will tell what comes next for the area, but again, to be clear, I welcome the changes. When the house next to mine was demolished, and changed from being a single family dwelling to SEVEN flats, I gulped and just carried on. When the same thing happened two doors further down, my reaction was the same. Local parking became a pain in the arse, the mannerisms of the new residents were very different to those of days gone by. Bins all over the place, bad parking, parties etc. Some of which is easy to suck it up, other bits just make you wish people would be a little respectful and try and include themselves in the neighbourhood. Alas, not so.
Comments about my last blog suggested my words were poison, I was caught in tribalism, and that I was unwilling to accept new people, businesses and buildings in the area.
Well, that was already a slight misrepresentation of what I had actually said. I have never said change is bad. I have however said that moving to an area which doesn't have all the boxes ticked, and them stomping your feet that they are not ticked, is a little weak, to say the least.
What I missed out from the initial blog was the outcry of disappointment when new businesses, not to the liking of some, make a proposal to open. There is a very clear message in some peoples comments that a similar business of a slightly more affluent nature would be welcomed. However as it is not the business they were hoping for, it can go to hell.
Example being the Aldi proposal in Bell Green. Opposed by some for genuine reasons, but for others, it just wasn't the retailer they wanted, so it should be opposed and blocked by any means necessary.
Today, a proposal has come to light which will see the redevelopment of a local business, and change it into a similar business, with a few storeys added to the height of the new building, and the inclusion of a 66 room hotel. God forbid !
Seeing some of the reactions, I get it. Concerns of daylight, being overlooked, and other such concerns. All understandable. However, once again, the air of snobbery and NIMBY raises it's ugly head, and the protests begin. Throwing up all sorts of reasons to oppose the proposal, some almost laughable in fact.
I don't live locally enough to the proposed site to really have a genuine opinion on it, not one which has any bearing on the matter. However, my general feeling towards it are much the same as the similar proposal nearby which is also a hotel and retail building, and that is, change is good.
Going back to my blog, and the comments made on it, this is exactly why the comments were "incorrect" so to speak. These are both pretty big changes to the area local to my house. They are no doubt going to have a number of impacts on the local roads, increased population of the area etc. I have no issues with that at all. However I bet that some of the people who said I was tribalised in my ways, are the same people who would object to these proposals.
Seeing two hotel companies willing to invest large sums into new businesses in the area is surely a good thing. Just because preferred retailers are not currently interested in moving into the area, surely seeing other businesses making their move is a positive for the area? Surely it shows that certain sectors feel there is room for growth, so the area has potential for now and the future. Is this not the exact thing I was told I was against, that I am supporting openly here?
So confusing!
So to clarify... I am all for change, I am all for the bettering of the area. More businesses, more jobs, more homes.. What I am against are people who pick and choose based on certain criteria, and go out of their way to be obstructive, purely because its not the business they wanted. Independent pizza shops pop up all over the place, hurrah, Domino's planned. DOWN WITH DOMINO'S !!
New supermarket planned, is it M&S or Waitrose? No? SAY NO TO NEW SUPERMARKET!
Does it make more sense now. You either support development and growth, or you don't. If you are going to be vocal about your selective mindset, expect to be called out on it.
SE23 has celebrated independent coffee shops, and that is something to be proud of for sure. So why is a Costa such a bad thing? More choice for those who prefer the chain. NO! May those people be damned for their poor taste in coffee, you should drink REAL coffee!!
There are so many examples of this selective NIMBYism. Going back to hotels.. We want SE23 to grown, we want it to be more affluent, have better shopping options, venues for entertaining, and fine dining etc. However we don't want hotels. Hotels which bring more people to the area, increasing footfall, increasing demands on local businesses, and making the area somewhat more desirable to the exact businesses which would turn a NIMBY to a YIMBY in a heartbeat.
As I was told, see the bigger picture.
With the Overground now in SE23, things are changing for sure, after all it was after the announcement of it coming to the area that the development of some new buildings started, the house prices rose, and the area became "more desirable". With the first wave of growth and development done and settled, other changes locally and to the transport infrastructure once again put SE23 on the map. However this time (since the explosion of social media) the voices of opposition are loud.
Time will tell what comes next for the area, but again, to be clear, I welcome the changes. When the house next to mine was demolished, and changed from being a single family dwelling to SEVEN flats, I gulped and just carried on. When the same thing happened two doors further down, my reaction was the same. Local parking became a pain in the arse, the mannerisms of the new residents were very different to those of days gone by. Bins all over the place, bad parking, parties etc. Some of which is easy to suck it up, other bits just make you wish people would be a little respectful and try and include themselves in the neighbourhood. Alas, not so.
Tuesday, October 2, 2018
Dear SE23...
I have lived in you for 45 years, over 3/4 of my life now, and we have seen some great times together. Your streets have taught me many life lessons, as well as burned me at times (my own stupid fault). You are my home, the place I miss when I am away, and the views of your rooftops, especially the church that peeks out at the top of my road, are always a welcome sight.
I have lived elsewhere, I have visited many places, but have always felt most comfortable right back within your streets.
My childhood was spent exploring the local roads. Finding all those alleyways, and cul-de-sacs hidden away from the view of every day life. Absolute gems of architecture, which I have grown to respect with age, and of course the odd blot on the landscape.
From a young child, to a man now in his 40's, you have shown me the values of a home, rather than a place to live, and I hope as the years go by, we will continue to have a wonderful relationship.
But..... SE23, there is a problem. It's not me, it's not you...... IT'S THEM !!!
Who the hell are these entitled arseholes who have moved in? When did SE23 become full of pompous idiots who demand all their demands are met. We want this shop, we don't like this company, who are these people who have parties, it's too light, dark, grey, green..... Please, make them go away!
We were happy for so long. All the people who have spent their lives here with us, growing with the area, seeing businesses come and go. The Swiss Cottage, Woolworths, The Golden Griddle, the old petrol station on Waldram Park Road.... So many memories of days gone by, but all replaced by modern day businesses or building, most of which I welcome. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but as a whole, I love you SE23.
So back to those people. They are ruining what we have. The spillover from other local areas, reluctant to say they simply could not afford to live elsewhere, they tell us they are part of the "gentrification" of the area. The new breed, the start of a movement to bring the area up to date, and with the times.
For starters, some of these people need to understand what gentrification actually is. It is not modernisation, or a slight change in social wealth in an area. It is a bricks up redesign on an area for social development, and pushing out the existing people.
Let's get one thing straight here, we (the natives of the area) ain't going nowhere. Don't like us, don't like our ways? Simple, don't move here.
Recent years have seen people move to this lovely area, and start smear campaigns about loved locals, made snide comments to damage people and businesses which simply don't fit into their perfect little worlds, and started some sort of movement to turn the area into something it quite simply is not.
SE23, you are beautiful, filled with green spaces, tree lined streets, wide roads, and many lovely people and businesses, but a village, no! Quaint, nope! As for prime for gentrification.... Fuck right off!
I know you know I want what is best for you, I think I have gotten to know you pretty well over the years. So please, sell yourself more to the mainstream, lets see those building projects, the NIMBY arseholes are all crying about, happen. Bring on the chain stores like Costa to give the local independents a kick in the pants where needed. Domino's can't come soon enough, and lets see the good people of SE23 rise up and claim back what is theirs.
No more of this "I want it this way" bullshit. Talk of blocking cycle paths with concrete blocks, just in case mopeds ride through fire gates.... WTF !! What sort of nonsense is this? Who are these people who are moving in to this area? This is not the mindset of South London, this is people who think they live in South Kensington. Get a grip people!!
Now I love people, I love diversity, and I want this to work, I really do SE23. We can all live together in perfect harmony I am sure. We just need to be a bit more picky about some of the people moving in, and let them know where exactly they are moving in to. Streets are no uniquely lined with independent shops, simply because, well..... you are a town, not a village! Lidl and Aldi are popular because, well.... Most people shop with their budgets in mind, and don't let their precious egos get in the way. Good quality food, at affordable prices. Not the same food at over inflated prices, with premium price tags attached.
I think you are worthy of the finest businesses which suit the needs of our area, I really do. However I also know you don't take it to heart when some brands choose not to open branches in your neighbourhood. Usually based on the demographic of the area, and the projected revenues. I think the only people with a problem with this are those who, just for a moment, realise they are not living in the suburban utopia they like to think they are. A momentary reality check, you live in South London, get over yourself you pompous idiot.
SE23, if it is OK with you, I want to renew our vows to one another, just as long as you promise this is just a glitch, and that the madness will end one day. Sure, lets move up the ranks of most desirable places to live, let's celebrate the wonderful area that you really are, but don't let them bully you into over stretching yourself. You are perfect just the way you are.
As a side note... Dear people of the area, if you have lived here over 10-15 years, I am sure you appreciate the area for all it has to offer. There are some great tight knit communities around the area, speaking from personal experience, I know in times of need my neighbours have my back, and we are as one.
If you have moved in over recent years, and are one of these who chooses not to get to know any of your neighbours, or take an immediate dislike to them, well, quite frankly, that is your problem. Please don't move to an area which is loaded with history, family legacies, and so much more, and immediately think that things should be done differently now that you have moved in.
It doesn't work like that, and if you don't like it, do one! Do your research, find out about an area, and neighbourhood, rather than moving in and suddenly expecting to become the head of the house. If you demand certain businesses, don't like the wildlife in an area broken into two districts, one with FOREST in the name and the other with PARK in it, don't move to it!
I am sick and tired of hearing the whining of the primadonnas, complaining that bin men are noisy, mopeds use the streets, their flat white is too milky, or that a frickin pizza place is daring to open locally to them! Get a grip of yourselves, or STFU, please!!
I could go on for ages about this, but can actually feel myself turning into a whining little NIMBY, so am going to go to the spa and have a green tea and meditate for a while....
Seriously though. If you are just moving in, or moved in recently, welcome to the area. Please take some time to get to know your neighbours, hell, just do a leaflet drop with some contact details, and a hi, you don't have to buy everyone hampers, or invite them over for canapes, (thats no how we do things around here!). SE23 is a fantastic area to live. Perfect, no, but it sure as hell doesn't need a Laurence Llewelyn Bowen make over.... Maybe a little DIY SOS at best :)
I guess it is worth adding, for fairness and balance. There is nothing wrong with hoping for improvements to an area when you move in. Hell, there is no such place as the perfect area. I have no issue with that whatsoever. Nor do I have a problem with new people moving in. It's a free country, and I don't blame you for wanting to move into this lovely area.
The people I speak of a a tiny but very vocal minority, much like those who read this entry in its original form, and took immediate offence, and told me I was wrong, and my words were poison. See, THAT is the problem right there.... Not just an opinion, FACT, I was wrong.
I have lived elsewhere, I have visited many places, but have always felt most comfortable right back within your streets.
My childhood was spent exploring the local roads. Finding all those alleyways, and cul-de-sacs hidden away from the view of every day life. Absolute gems of architecture, which I have grown to respect with age, and of course the odd blot on the landscape.
From a young child, to a man now in his 40's, you have shown me the values of a home, rather than a place to live, and I hope as the years go by, we will continue to have a wonderful relationship.
But..... SE23, there is a problem. It's not me, it's not you...... IT'S THEM !!!
Who the hell are these entitled arseholes who have moved in? When did SE23 become full of pompous idiots who demand all their demands are met. We want this shop, we don't like this company, who are these people who have parties, it's too light, dark, grey, green..... Please, make them go away!
We were happy for so long. All the people who have spent their lives here with us, growing with the area, seeing businesses come and go. The Swiss Cottage, Woolworths, The Golden Griddle, the old petrol station on Waldram Park Road.... So many memories of days gone by, but all replaced by modern day businesses or building, most of which I welcome. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but as a whole, I love you SE23.
So back to those people. They are ruining what we have. The spillover from other local areas, reluctant to say they simply could not afford to live elsewhere, they tell us they are part of the "gentrification" of the area. The new breed, the start of a movement to bring the area up to date, and with the times.
For starters, some of these people need to understand what gentrification actually is. It is not modernisation, or a slight change in social wealth in an area. It is a bricks up redesign on an area for social development, and pushing out the existing people.
Let's get one thing straight here, we (the natives of the area) ain't going nowhere. Don't like us, don't like our ways? Simple, don't move here.
Recent years have seen people move to this lovely area, and start smear campaigns about loved locals, made snide comments to damage people and businesses which simply don't fit into their perfect little worlds, and started some sort of movement to turn the area into something it quite simply is not.
SE23, you are beautiful, filled with green spaces, tree lined streets, wide roads, and many lovely people and businesses, but a village, no! Quaint, nope! As for prime for gentrification.... Fuck right off!
I know you know I want what is best for you, I think I have gotten to know you pretty well over the years. So please, sell yourself more to the mainstream, lets see those building projects, the NIMBY arseholes are all crying about, happen. Bring on the chain stores like Costa to give the local independents a kick in the pants where needed. Domino's can't come soon enough, and lets see the good people of SE23 rise up and claim back what is theirs.
No more of this "I want it this way" bullshit. Talk of blocking cycle paths with concrete blocks, just in case mopeds ride through fire gates.... WTF !! What sort of nonsense is this? Who are these people who are moving in to this area? This is not the mindset of South London, this is people who think they live in South Kensington. Get a grip people!!
Now I love people, I love diversity, and I want this to work, I really do SE23. We can all live together in perfect harmony I am sure. We just need to be a bit more picky about some of the people moving in, and let them know where exactly they are moving in to. Streets are no uniquely lined with independent shops, simply because, well..... you are a town, not a village! Lidl and Aldi are popular because, well.... Most people shop with their budgets in mind, and don't let their precious egos get in the way. Good quality food, at affordable prices. Not the same food at over inflated prices, with premium price tags attached.
I think you are worthy of the finest businesses which suit the needs of our area, I really do. However I also know you don't take it to heart when some brands choose not to open branches in your neighbourhood. Usually based on the demographic of the area, and the projected revenues. I think the only people with a problem with this are those who, just for a moment, realise they are not living in the suburban utopia they like to think they are. A momentary reality check, you live in South London, get over yourself you pompous idiot.
SE23, if it is OK with you, I want to renew our vows to one another, just as long as you promise this is just a glitch, and that the madness will end one day. Sure, lets move up the ranks of most desirable places to live, let's celebrate the wonderful area that you really are, but don't let them bully you into over stretching yourself. You are perfect just the way you are.
As a side note... Dear people of the area, if you have lived here over 10-15 years, I am sure you appreciate the area for all it has to offer. There are some great tight knit communities around the area, speaking from personal experience, I know in times of need my neighbours have my back, and we are as one.
If you have moved in over recent years, and are one of these who chooses not to get to know any of your neighbours, or take an immediate dislike to them, well, quite frankly, that is your problem. Please don't move to an area which is loaded with history, family legacies, and so much more, and immediately think that things should be done differently now that you have moved in.
It doesn't work like that, and if you don't like it, do one! Do your research, find out about an area, and neighbourhood, rather than moving in and suddenly expecting to become the head of the house. If you demand certain businesses, don't like the wildlife in an area broken into two districts, one with FOREST in the name and the other with PARK in it, don't move to it!
I am sick and tired of hearing the whining of the primadonnas, complaining that bin men are noisy, mopeds use the streets, their flat white is too milky, or that a frickin pizza place is daring to open locally to them! Get a grip of yourselves, or STFU, please!!
I could go on for ages about this, but can actually feel myself turning into a whining little NIMBY, so am going to go to the spa and have a green tea and meditate for a while....
Seriously though. If you are just moving in, or moved in recently, welcome to the area. Please take some time to get to know your neighbours, hell, just do a leaflet drop with some contact details, and a hi, you don't have to buy everyone hampers, or invite them over for canapes, (thats no how we do things around here!). SE23 is a fantastic area to live. Perfect, no, but it sure as hell doesn't need a Laurence Llewelyn Bowen make over.... Maybe a little DIY SOS at best :)
I guess it is worth adding, for fairness and balance. There is nothing wrong with hoping for improvements to an area when you move in. Hell, there is no such place as the perfect area. I have no issue with that whatsoever. Nor do I have a problem with new people moving in. It's a free country, and I don't blame you for wanting to move into this lovely area.
The people I speak of a a tiny but very vocal minority, much like those who read this entry in its original form, and took immediate offence, and told me I was wrong, and my words were poison. See, THAT is the problem right there.... Not just an opinion, FACT, I was wrong.
Monday, June 18, 2018
And so it continues....
The ongoing saga of community forums, and refusing to let them breathe.
When the old forum started to die off, one of the biggest complaints was that people were having their posts edited, moved, and condensed into other older, sometimes unrelated threads. Today a perfectly good thread, asking for advice has been merged into a cutesie little thread.
Sure no forum wants 20 threads about the same sort of thing, but sometimes it's needed. Sometimes people who participated in the older thread, and are done with it, see it pop up again, and just ignore it. Leaving poor Dave's new post out in the wilderness where no one cares about it. Had the new thread he started been left, and left with the title he posted it with, someone might have bothered to read it.
In turn, they may have replied, and a whole new conversation would be started. But alas, for some (who insist on maintaining control, and not being able to leave things alone for five minutes) this is all too much, and it needs sorting out. Topic title changes, moved into a sub-forum you may or may not subscribe to, and merged into oblivion. Poor Dave, he only wanted some advice on a nice Chinese to use!
Of course, if it is ANOTHER BLOODY COFFEE SHOP, it immediately deserves two things. It's own thread, and a test of the all important "flat white"!
Things which are not relevant to the area are not permitted, after all, who wants to just chat with locals. General Chatter was always one of the busiest forums on the forums I ran, but this is apparently not welcome in local forums these days, unless of course it one of the items on the agenda to ram down peoples throats.
Politics have no place on a community forum in my opinion. Of course they will pop up from time to time in conversation, and it can delicately be put that its not the place to delve into it.
However some feel it is appropriate the tout local politics all over a local forum, maybe even dominate the forum with political views. Of course, we are all entitled to an opinion, and once stated, that is all that is needed. Full on debate however..... overkill!
Forum killer in fact. Drawing out the anger and intent in some, provocation to use stronger and stronger language. Where does it all end? Well I will tell you where..... With the final say of the person who can, and usually will close the thread after having their say.
Or in some cases, posts will be edited or removed if they cause too much upset, or are damaging to reputations (for some at least)
Watching on from afar, recent posts about a local political meetings which were disrupted, it is easy to see the same pattern once again. People speaking out against the thread author (and forum owner) , and one by one being shot down by the posting of Wiki pages, links to news stories (which support the post) and comments berating and belittling those daring to have an opposing opinion.
Point this out, and it is either denied, or you are attacking the owner.
Most threads ending with the post being moved to another section of the forum where many fear to tread, not wishing to get tangled up in political venom, but preferring to keep topics light and local.
So, I want to put this nicely, and as unbiased as possible.
I know you want the forums to succeed, I believe you when you say you love the area you live in, and want to see what is best for it. (even if your actions contradict your words at times)
So, a message from an ever growing group of people (not a movement against you!)
Please stop being overwhelming and overpowering on the forum. To succeed it needs space, room to breathe, and people to be allowed to express themselves freely. In the actual definition of the word, not the one you consider to be the right version.
Everything is NOT political, remove politics from the forum.
All the hidden "opt in" forums make the landing page of the forum look dead, as well as pretty dull.
Here is a challenge. Step back, give it a month, trust the other moderators, let it do its thing.
Do you not see that time and time again, people post saying they feel something is overpowering the forum, and instead of listening, you shout. Shouting people down, telling them you know better. But all the while it is those people who make the forum what it is. Show some respect.
Only today two users have been blasted for simply saying they disagree with the way certain posts come across.
I know you think this is personal, I know you think I want the forum to die, but you could not be further from the truth if you tried. I simply don't like you or the way you treat the users. As well as users on other platforms too.
So that's that, I can't be more honest really.
The local forums have done some great things, great minds have been thrust together, and peoples problems solved. But right now, it is neither friendly nor welcoming, especially to the casual observer.
Your move.
When the old forum started to die off, one of the biggest complaints was that people were having their posts edited, moved, and condensed into other older, sometimes unrelated threads. Today a perfectly good thread, asking for advice has been merged into a cutesie little thread.
Sure no forum wants 20 threads about the same sort of thing, but sometimes it's needed. Sometimes people who participated in the older thread, and are done with it, see it pop up again, and just ignore it. Leaving poor Dave's new post out in the wilderness where no one cares about it. Had the new thread he started been left, and left with the title he posted it with, someone might have bothered to read it.
In turn, they may have replied, and a whole new conversation would be started. But alas, for some (who insist on maintaining control, and not being able to leave things alone for five minutes) this is all too much, and it needs sorting out. Topic title changes, moved into a sub-forum you may or may not subscribe to, and merged into oblivion. Poor Dave, he only wanted some advice on a nice Chinese to use!
Of course, if it is ANOTHER BLOODY COFFEE SHOP, it immediately deserves two things. It's own thread, and a test of the all important "flat white"!
Things which are not relevant to the area are not permitted, after all, who wants to just chat with locals. General Chatter was always one of the busiest forums on the forums I ran, but this is apparently not welcome in local forums these days, unless of course it one of the items on the agenda to ram down peoples throats.
Politics have no place on a community forum in my opinion. Of course they will pop up from time to time in conversation, and it can delicately be put that its not the place to delve into it.
However some feel it is appropriate the tout local politics all over a local forum, maybe even dominate the forum with political views. Of course, we are all entitled to an opinion, and once stated, that is all that is needed. Full on debate however..... overkill!
Forum killer in fact. Drawing out the anger and intent in some, provocation to use stronger and stronger language. Where does it all end? Well I will tell you where..... With the final say of the person who can, and usually will close the thread after having their say.
Or in some cases, posts will be edited or removed if they cause too much upset, or are damaging to reputations (for some at least)
Watching on from afar, recent posts about a local political meetings which were disrupted, it is easy to see the same pattern once again. People speaking out against the thread author (and forum owner) , and one by one being shot down by the posting of Wiki pages, links to news stories (which support the post) and comments berating and belittling those daring to have an opposing opinion.
Point this out, and it is either denied, or you are attacking the owner.
Most threads ending with the post being moved to another section of the forum where many fear to tread, not wishing to get tangled up in political venom, but preferring to keep topics light and local.
So, I want to put this nicely, and as unbiased as possible.
I know you want the forums to succeed, I believe you when you say you love the area you live in, and want to see what is best for it. (even if your actions contradict your words at times)
So, a message from an ever growing group of people (not a movement against you!)
Please stop being overwhelming and overpowering on the forum. To succeed it needs space, room to breathe, and people to be allowed to express themselves freely. In the actual definition of the word, not the one you consider to be the right version.
Everything is NOT political, remove politics from the forum.
All the hidden "opt in" forums make the landing page of the forum look dead, as well as pretty dull.
Here is a challenge. Step back, give it a month, trust the other moderators, let it do its thing.
Do you not see that time and time again, people post saying they feel something is overpowering the forum, and instead of listening, you shout. Shouting people down, telling them you know better. But all the while it is those people who make the forum what it is. Show some respect.
Only today two users have been blasted for simply saying they disagree with the way certain posts come across.
I know you think this is personal, I know you think I want the forum to die, but you could not be further from the truth if you tried. I simply don't like you or the way you treat the users. As well as users on other platforms too.
So that's that, I can't be more honest really.
The local forums have done some great things, great minds have been thrust together, and peoples problems solved. But right now, it is neither friendly nor welcoming, especially to the casual observer.
Your move.
Sunday, June 3, 2018
Dear Mr Mod......
Some time ago now, I wrote an entry called "Dear Steve Shaw". It was a very blunt and open entry regarding the behaviour of the owner and admin of SE23.com.
At the time of writing the piece, I had had a number of fallings out with Mr Shaw, and I was part of a new beginning for a local forum for the area.
SE23.life was born, and the pissing contest begun. Most stones being thrown from .com at .life, and a few low blows along the way, with Wikipedia being edited, porn links being posted, and reports being made to the local authority for posting a few flyers up.
When I wrote the piece, Mr Mod was delighted, and felt the tone was fair and just, and raised topics which seemed to have gone under the radar for the majority. All is fair in love and war so they say.
However, as time has gone by, myself and Mr Mod have grown apart. Differences in opinions on religious and political matters to name just a couple of the subjects which have caused much debate. Sadly due to me confessing to mental health issues, and choosing to step back from the forum a number of times, first from Moderator, then as a user, I have for some reason been deemed unstable, and this has been to topic of many a personal snipe and attack on the forum ever since.
When I first stepped back, I was unhappy with comments being made about lower income families, and the proposed social cleansing of the area, with Mr Mod expressing that people who could not afford to pay their rent themselves should move to an area they can afford, and make space for those more affluent. For someone who has come from a low income family, and lived in the area all my life, that is a bitter pill to swallow.
When I finally decided to leave the forum once and for all, and felt my name had been dragged through the mud enough, I asked for my posts to be deleted. I was told this was technically possible, but was a lot of work, and did I really want to damage some well established threads by rendering them unreadable.
So my presence was now undesirable, but the conversations I had started when I was in favour, well they could stay. Trying not to rock the cart too much, I agreed to leave my posts be.
I have attempted to engage in various conversations on the forum since this time, but for some reason, Mr Mod sees any comments opposing his opinions as "personal attacks". In fact on a number of occasions, both via PM and more recently on a lesser read forum section, Mr Mod has taken it upon himself to claim to be the victim of personal attacks himself, all the while throwing stone after stone of accusation at my name. Usually in these cases, the right to reply has been removed by closing the discussion, only allowing people of certain forum privileges to be able to comment. Needless to say, these spats have gone on and on.
On the matter of personal attacks, the same topic arises time and time again, which is a conversation which was had on Facebook and Facebook Messenger regarding some activities by a group of Muslims during Eid. The story made the news, as heavy rain had washed the blood of morning sacrifices into the streets, and a photo showed the streets "running red with blood".
While happily discussing this with a friend on FB, Mr Mod added his opinions, and begun expressing his disgust at the event. Fair enough, it is not to everyones taste. However as the comments became stronger, I received a message from Mr Mod on FB Messenger , expressing his surprise and shock that I, as an owner of a few dogs, would make excuses for such a barbaric act, and telling me how medieval the behaviour of the Muslims featured in the story was.
As the conversation went on, in my opinion, it became apparent that Mr Mod has some deep seated issues with Islam, so I ended the conversation, and later blocked him from my FB.
Later posts on the forum from Mr Mod have time and time again brought into question his stance on Islam and Muslims. With links being posted to extremism stories, followed by a "disclaimer" saying that not all Muslims are bad, and most are fine. Might as well add "I have a friend who is a Muslim" just for good measure.
So back to personal attacks, it is this exchange which is used as the example each time. Vaguely touching upon the actual story, but instead focusing on "sharing private messages without permission, and misquoting what was actually said". Strangely, although I am asked to provide the whole story or say nothing, as soon as I mention anti Islam comments, suddenly I am making another personal attack. Ignoring the fact that I have just been asked to quote.... Strange.
Now, a while back I rejoined the forum, new name, trying to keep things lower key, but still have an opinion. All was well until clever Mr Mod recognised the IP and suddenly everything I said was being negative, or having a personal dig (again!).
Since this time, things have gotten bad, I mean real bad. With myself and a number of other forum members being "identified" as trouble makers, and it would seem, been subject of a number of private discussions.
While it is fair to say that I will "poke the bear" from time to time, (stealing the expression from someone else I saw use it today), it is always with a little wink, and in no means is it personal. However, this is not how it is perceived. Instead warnings are sent, strongly worded PM's sent, and more often than not, a discussion begins, in which I am usually not allowed to participate, even though it is on a public forum. Topics will skew violently from the actual matter at hand, to the behaviour of certain forum members, expressing how the comments were made as personal attacks, and that enough warnings have been given.
The strange part about this is, a personal attack will be made, openly and violently, stating that Mr Mod believes the comments made originally were a personal attack on himself. Can you keep up with this? I am not sure even I am keeping up with myself here. It's all a bit too strange to explain, let alone comprehend from the outside.
The big issue here is quite simple. If a topic has a comment made on it, with which Mr Mod agrees, all is well. However, if he has shown an interest in it, and you DISagree, then you are stirring trouble, being personal and trying to derail the topic, and disrupt a meaningful discussion with your negativity. Apparently quoting someone, and "calling them out" on their comments, something Mr Mod does on a VERY regular basis, usually with very condescending overtones, you are a bully, and are trying to silence people. Oh the irony!
The biggest issue for me is this. I love the area I live in, and have lived here all my memorable life. Unlike some who are new to the area, welcome gentrification, and don't like people who do not share the same ideals. So to have someone like this start a forum, which has grown be become friendly, successful and a great tool for the area. Only for them to then start to preach their beliefs on it, and try and suggest those who disagree are bullies, is a real shame.
What has become apparent over recent weeks, is that there is a small group of users on the forum who too get the same treatment, snide little comments,strongly worded PM's and it would appear that there are suspicions of some sort of "plan" to cause the downfall of the forum. All very MI6 I must say. The levels of self importance really are at a whole new level. To think that grown adults would take the time to organise some sort of coup, to overthrow Mr Mod, and destroy a community forum we all helped build.
When having a rant about these plans, Mr Mod will regularly say how he will not stand by and watch others destroy what he and "the team" have created. Forgetting of course that I was once one of the "team" and contributed a lot of time and thought into the whole thing myself. Including starting some of the popular threads on the forum, which to this day are still active. However I don't think he has actually forgotten, more conveniently excludes these pieces of information when trying to belittle me and others. After all, these are the same threads which he desperately wants to keep on the forum, along with my other posts. As proven by the guilt trip comments when I first asked to be deleted from the forum.
What has become even more apparent is that I have no place on a shared platform with Mr Mod. Especially one owned, and governed by someone who I would describe as an egotistical megalomaniac. Only my opinion of course. Unable to differentiate between being a user and the owner of the forum, posts cross from being a user to a mod, to admin, to the OWNER of the forum on a regular basis. While berating others for "liking" posts which contain comments which are deemed personal attacks (not permitted by community guidelines), Mr Mod continues to cheer for any corner which sticks up for him, and openly "likes" the posts which are made in retaliation in his name.
With this in mind, and given the constant mental strain placed upon me by the ongoing bullshit that spews from Team Mod, I have decided it is time for me to leave the forum once and for all. A request will soon be made to SE23.life , asking that all my user data, including my public posts be removed with immediate effect. Not sure how GDPR backs me on this one, but I think regardless of law and legislation, it would be the decent and correct thing to do. Although I am sure this will meet some resistance along the way, and my name will be dragged through the mud.
I thought it would be nice, before of course I am banned for life from ever viewing the forum again, to share a few of the charming messages I have been sent. Rules and regulations I have been told I must abide by if I wish to be part of the community, and the consequences of not doing so. No paranoia or ego at work in this one.
My reply was
Obviously, I was wrong, I did't understand the reasons for these extra rules, so it was explained to me in detail.
A lot of the comments and "concerns" were based on a forum thread about a plan for a Domino's Pizza in Honor Oak, how very dare they, Honor Oak is a quaint village with no place for such common businesses, let alone a chain. With exception of course to Sainsburys, who are welcome. And heavens forbid a Waitrose were to open, well that would be the icing on the cake, a true sign of gentrification if there ever was one. But alas.....
The original thread re Domino's was here. Lots of negative NIMBY comments made, so I added some more positive comments, suggesting it was not all bad, and why should a business be chased away because it doesn't fit someones agenda.
https://se23.life/t/dominos-honor-oak-park/6855
Of course, once I had re-joined the forum, and openly commented supporting the plan, it was time for the shit to REALLY hit the fan. This is where it all became rather apparent that the rules of the forum, for some at least are , do as I say, not as I do.
A new section called Moderator Actions was opened, and a thread started, apparently about the Domino's thread, however it quickly became apparent that Mr Mod had other plans. A character assassination of his very own. Swiftly turning the topic away from Domino's , a series of accusations begun, and the onslaught begun. Post after post, calling me out on my comments, refusing to believe that they were just my own feelings, and instead somehow turning them into the "personal attack" he likes to refer to all the time. Have a look for yourself.
https://se23.life/t/intervention-on-second-dominos-topic/8648
I have a saved copy of the page, just in case it disappears, or posts are edited over and over as they usually are, removing offensive or threatening content. Just like the FB post.
I could go on like this for hours, of course this is only my side of the story, and I am sure Mr Mod has a fantastic tale to tell, quotes to share, and interpretations of comments made which will make your toes curl.
I will close on saying, SE23.life is a great concept, an invaluable tool to the community, and a fantastic way to socialise and get to know more about the area and its people. Sadly, as a growing number of people are starting to feel, the head honcho has issues. While the public persona is likeable and friendly, behind the scenes he is a paranoid, and rude individual, almost the textbook definition of a sociopath. While seemingly adored by some, the same cannot be said for others. Although present Mr Mod with this information, and you will be told that they are jealous, and are trying to damage his good standing in the community. Trying to undo all the good he has done, blah blah blah.
Every time someone speaks out against one of his beliefs, they suffer the wrath of his other personality. Most opting to just sit back, shut up, and do as they are told, in order to have some sort of input into the forum. With a growing list of displeased users, I can only hope that something changes soon, and the forum is allowed to breathe, and behave normally, without the constant nursing it currently has.
Since writing and publishing this blog entry I have received notification from Mr Mod stating the following.
At the time of writing the piece, I had had a number of fallings out with Mr Shaw, and I was part of a new beginning for a local forum for the area.
SE23.life was born, and the pissing contest begun. Most stones being thrown from .com at .life, and a few low blows along the way, with Wikipedia being edited, porn links being posted, and reports being made to the local authority for posting a few flyers up.
When I wrote the piece, Mr Mod was delighted, and felt the tone was fair and just, and raised topics which seemed to have gone under the radar for the majority. All is fair in love and war so they say.
However, as time has gone by, myself and Mr Mod have grown apart. Differences in opinions on religious and political matters to name just a couple of the subjects which have caused much debate. Sadly due to me confessing to mental health issues, and choosing to step back from the forum a number of times, first from Moderator, then as a user, I have for some reason been deemed unstable, and this has been to topic of many a personal snipe and attack on the forum ever since.
When I first stepped back, I was unhappy with comments being made about lower income families, and the proposed social cleansing of the area, with Mr Mod expressing that people who could not afford to pay their rent themselves should move to an area they can afford, and make space for those more affluent. For someone who has come from a low income family, and lived in the area all my life, that is a bitter pill to swallow.
When I finally decided to leave the forum once and for all, and felt my name had been dragged through the mud enough, I asked for my posts to be deleted. I was told this was technically possible, but was a lot of work, and did I really want to damage some well established threads by rendering them unreadable.
So my presence was now undesirable, but the conversations I had started when I was in favour, well they could stay. Trying not to rock the cart too much, I agreed to leave my posts be.
I have attempted to engage in various conversations on the forum since this time, but for some reason, Mr Mod sees any comments opposing his opinions as "personal attacks". In fact on a number of occasions, both via PM and more recently on a lesser read forum section, Mr Mod has taken it upon himself to claim to be the victim of personal attacks himself, all the while throwing stone after stone of accusation at my name. Usually in these cases, the right to reply has been removed by closing the discussion, only allowing people of certain forum privileges to be able to comment. Needless to say, these spats have gone on and on.
On the matter of personal attacks, the same topic arises time and time again, which is a conversation which was had on Facebook and Facebook Messenger regarding some activities by a group of Muslims during Eid. The story made the news, as heavy rain had washed the blood of morning sacrifices into the streets, and a photo showed the streets "running red with blood".
While happily discussing this with a friend on FB, Mr Mod added his opinions, and begun expressing his disgust at the event. Fair enough, it is not to everyones taste. However as the comments became stronger, I received a message from Mr Mod on FB Messenger , expressing his surprise and shock that I, as an owner of a few dogs, would make excuses for such a barbaric act, and telling me how medieval the behaviour of the Muslims featured in the story was.
As the conversation went on, in my opinion, it became apparent that Mr Mod has some deep seated issues with Islam, so I ended the conversation, and later blocked him from my FB.
Later posts on the forum from Mr Mod have time and time again brought into question his stance on Islam and Muslims. With links being posted to extremism stories, followed by a "disclaimer" saying that not all Muslims are bad, and most are fine. Might as well add "I have a friend who is a Muslim" just for good measure.
So back to personal attacks, it is this exchange which is used as the example each time. Vaguely touching upon the actual story, but instead focusing on "sharing private messages without permission, and misquoting what was actually said". Strangely, although I am asked to provide the whole story or say nothing, as soon as I mention anti Islam comments, suddenly I am making another personal attack. Ignoring the fact that I have just been asked to quote.... Strange.
Now, a while back I rejoined the forum, new name, trying to keep things lower key, but still have an opinion. All was well until clever Mr Mod recognised the IP and suddenly everything I said was being negative, or having a personal dig (again!).
Since this time, things have gotten bad, I mean real bad. With myself and a number of other forum members being "identified" as trouble makers, and it would seem, been subject of a number of private discussions.
While it is fair to say that I will "poke the bear" from time to time, (stealing the expression from someone else I saw use it today), it is always with a little wink, and in no means is it personal. However, this is not how it is perceived. Instead warnings are sent, strongly worded PM's sent, and more often than not, a discussion begins, in which I am usually not allowed to participate, even though it is on a public forum. Topics will skew violently from the actual matter at hand, to the behaviour of certain forum members, expressing how the comments were made as personal attacks, and that enough warnings have been given.
The strange part about this is, a personal attack will be made, openly and violently, stating that Mr Mod believes the comments made originally were a personal attack on himself. Can you keep up with this? I am not sure even I am keeping up with myself here. It's all a bit too strange to explain, let alone comprehend from the outside.
The big issue here is quite simple. If a topic has a comment made on it, with which Mr Mod agrees, all is well. However, if he has shown an interest in it, and you DISagree, then you are stirring trouble, being personal and trying to derail the topic, and disrupt a meaningful discussion with your negativity. Apparently quoting someone, and "calling them out" on their comments, something Mr Mod does on a VERY regular basis, usually with very condescending overtones, you are a bully, and are trying to silence people. Oh the irony!
The biggest issue for me is this. I love the area I live in, and have lived here all my memorable life. Unlike some who are new to the area, welcome gentrification, and don't like people who do not share the same ideals. So to have someone like this start a forum, which has grown be become friendly, successful and a great tool for the area. Only for them to then start to preach their beliefs on it, and try and suggest those who disagree are bullies, is a real shame.
What has become apparent over recent weeks, is that there is a small group of users on the forum who too get the same treatment, snide little comments,strongly worded PM's and it would appear that there are suspicions of some sort of "plan" to cause the downfall of the forum. All very MI6 I must say. The levels of self importance really are at a whole new level. To think that grown adults would take the time to organise some sort of coup, to overthrow Mr Mod, and destroy a community forum we all helped build.
When having a rant about these plans, Mr Mod will regularly say how he will not stand by and watch others destroy what he and "the team" have created. Forgetting of course that I was once one of the "team" and contributed a lot of time and thought into the whole thing myself. Including starting some of the popular threads on the forum, which to this day are still active. However I don't think he has actually forgotten, more conveniently excludes these pieces of information when trying to belittle me and others. After all, these are the same threads which he desperately wants to keep on the forum, along with my other posts. As proven by the guilt trip comments when I first asked to be deleted from the forum.
What has become even more apparent is that I have no place on a shared platform with Mr Mod. Especially one owned, and governed by someone who I would describe as an egotistical megalomaniac. Only my opinion of course. Unable to differentiate between being a user and the owner of the forum, posts cross from being a user to a mod, to admin, to the OWNER of the forum on a regular basis. While berating others for "liking" posts which contain comments which are deemed personal attacks (not permitted by community guidelines), Mr Mod continues to cheer for any corner which sticks up for him, and openly "likes" the posts which are made in retaliation in his name.
With this in mind, and given the constant mental strain placed upon me by the ongoing bullshit that spews from Team Mod, I have decided it is time for me to leave the forum once and for all. A request will soon be made to SE23.life , asking that all my user data, including my public posts be removed with immediate effect. Not sure how GDPR backs me on this one, but I think regardless of law and legislation, it would be the decent and correct thing to do. Although I am sure this will meet some resistance along the way, and my name will be dragged through the mud.
I thought it would be nice, before of course I am banned for life from ever viewing the forum again, to share a few of the charming messages I have been sent. Rules and regulations I have been told I must abide by if I wish to be part of the community, and the consequences of not doing so. No paranoia or ego at work in this one.
Michael,
The mod team is here to ensure that everyone gets an equal say on local issues.
We will moderate comments that do not follow the forum guidelines 1, and whilst we allow pseudonyms on SE23.life moderators will pay particular attention to posts from all unverified accounts due to the risks associated with sock puppetry.
Here are some points to bear in mind:
- If you’d like to get verified (for the second time), you will need to adopt your old account, @Snazy or rename your new account to @MichaelSnasdell. Our verification system is designed to avoid sock puppets.
- The forum has a right to know that two accounts belong to the same person when that person expresses opinions about local planning matters or businesses. Consider your future posts with this in mind.
- If you publicise private messages from other forum members to make points against them you will be instantly and permanently banned.
Please respect the guidelines and the positive and cooperative community that you helped build.
- If you choose to leave the forum for a fourth time, you will not announce it in the forum but instead you will privately message the moderators, and your account will be anonymised and deactivated.
Thanks,
SE23.life Team
My reply was
Well I have to say, with the hope of making a clean start and leave the whole past behind, the message seems very negative with the comments about leaving the forum for the forth time etc.
Totally up to you, although I would prefer if you were just as transparent as you wish me to be, and say if you would rather I not participate, rather than some the personal snipes above.
With regards to making my new account into my own name, this is not something which has been demanded of others by the looks of things, even with unverified accounts.
I am however of course more than happy to say openly who I am.
Like I say, your forum, your decision. If the above is not acceptable, then I guess it is decided.
Obviously, I was wrong, I did't understand the reasons for these extra rules, so it was explained to me in detail.
Hello Michael,
You may have misunderstood the first message. We will treat your @TheNewGuy account in the same fair way that we would any other known second account.
We value transparency on this forum. Next time you want to make a clean start we’d recommend you do so transparently rather than adopting an artificial persona.
Using a single account under a pseudonym is acceptable, though, as many others do.
However, bear in mind that we scrutinise all anonymous unverified accounts that choose to dominate topics on sensitive issues (e.g. planning), especially when those anon accounts repeatedly and forcefully state their opinion and cast negative aspersions on other members with different opinions:
- “All just seems a bit snobby the way people are going on.”
- “Not sure why people are getting so uptight about it. Why doesn’t one of you open a more appropriate shop if you know better?”
- “Maybe the area isn’t as good or attractive as some would like to believe.”
- “such a negative audience. Forums aren’t for everyone.”
- “a small group of people on a forum saying negative things”
- “stamping all over a new business venture because they use mopeds, and you don’t like their pizza.” [no other commenter said they didn’t like Domino’s pizza]
I hope you understand why this pattern of posting might be seen as problematic by any reasonable mod team.
- “I get it, people don’t want a Dominos on their pretty main road row of shops.”
The mod team is happy for you to return to the forum and contribute positively and respectfully.
We will reactivate your @Snazy account if you wish to use a verified account here. If you wish to remain anonymous and unverified, that is fine too. We will moderate your posts in the same even-handed way that we moderate other accounts.
If you wish to leave the forum again, we ask that you PM us and we will anonymise your posts.
Please respect the guidelines and the positive tone of the forum, where you are most welcome.
SE23.life Team
A lot of the comments and "concerns" were based on a forum thread about a plan for a Domino's Pizza in Honor Oak, how very dare they, Honor Oak is a quaint village with no place for such common businesses, let alone a chain. With exception of course to Sainsburys, who are welcome. And heavens forbid a Waitrose were to open, well that would be the icing on the cake, a true sign of gentrification if there ever was one. But alas.....
The original thread re Domino's was here. Lots of negative NIMBY comments made, so I added some more positive comments, suggesting it was not all bad, and why should a business be chased away because it doesn't fit someones agenda.
https://se23.life/t/dominos-honor-oak-park/6855
Of course, once I had re-joined the forum, and openly commented supporting the plan, it was time for the shit to REALLY hit the fan. This is where it all became rather apparent that the rules of the forum, for some at least are , do as I say, not as I do.
A new section called Moderator Actions was opened, and a thread started, apparently about the Domino's thread, however it quickly became apparent that Mr Mod had other plans. A character assassination of his very own. Swiftly turning the topic away from Domino's , a series of accusations begun, and the onslaught begun. Post after post, calling me out on my comments, refusing to believe that they were just my own feelings, and instead somehow turning them into the "personal attack" he likes to refer to all the time. Have a look for yourself.
https://se23.life/t/intervention-on-second-dominos-topic/8648
I have a saved copy of the page, just in case it disappears, or posts are edited over and over as they usually are, removing offensive or threatening content. Just like the FB post.
I could go on like this for hours, of course this is only my side of the story, and I am sure Mr Mod has a fantastic tale to tell, quotes to share, and interpretations of comments made which will make your toes curl.
I will close on saying, SE23.life is a great concept, an invaluable tool to the community, and a fantastic way to socialise and get to know more about the area and its people. Sadly, as a growing number of people are starting to feel, the head honcho has issues. While the public persona is likeable and friendly, behind the scenes he is a paranoid, and rude individual, almost the textbook definition of a sociopath. While seemingly adored by some, the same cannot be said for others. Although present Mr Mod with this information, and you will be told that they are jealous, and are trying to damage his good standing in the community. Trying to undo all the good he has done, blah blah blah.
Every time someone speaks out against one of his beliefs, they suffer the wrath of his other personality. Most opting to just sit back, shut up, and do as they are told, in order to have some sort of input into the forum. With a growing list of displeased users, I can only hope that something changes soon, and the forum is allowed to breathe, and behave normally, without the constant nursing it currently has.
Since writing and publishing this blog entry I have received notification from Mr Mod stating the following.
"it’s potted with lies. Lies intended to defame my character. I take defamation very seriously. Take down the post within an hour or I’ll raise this with the authorities."
I of course take such comments seriously, and am happy to address any specific comments made by myself which are deemed and proven as defamatory.
UPDATE.
Following a discussion with someone I respect very much, I have edited the post to remove the names. Please don't let this be confused with complying with any threats I have received.
UPDATE.
Following a discussion with someone I respect very much, I have edited the post to remove the names. Please don't let this be confused with complying with any threats I have received.
Wednesday, June 15, 2016
Every dog has its day...
Everything in life has a finite time span for being relevant. And when the day comes when it is no longer king of the hill there are two ways to go. Gracefully, or kicking and screaming.
For me, going out gracefully, and being remembered for your greatness and service is far more appealing that throwing tantrums and having to be removed by security. Remembered only for that last childish outburst.
Of course, the reasons for falling from the top are plentiful, so I suppose your actions are sometimes determined by what happened to bring it all about.
Imagine, spinning plates, putting on an amazing show and gathering a crowd to watch your amazing show. As the crowds gather, and the spotlight gets brighter, you lose concentration on the plates.
As the first one hits the floor, you turn in panic to react to the situation, frantically running back and forth trying to keep things going. One by one, they drop and smash, until finally you have managed to get 10% of them safely spinning again.
Turning back to your adorning crowd, unsurprisingly most are gone!
Looking to where they have gone, you see them across the way at a different attraction. Not plate spinning, but juggling. So you have two choices, keep your plates spinning, and protect what you have left. Keep the remaining audience happy. Or take your plates down, give up on your show, and start throwing them at the juggler and its audience, hoping to take them down as well as yourself. The old "if I can't have it, you can't have it" play.
Usually if you go with the latter, you tend to be remembered for your last actions, and not the shows before that.
By now you are probably wondering what the hell I am talking about, so let's cut the bullshit, and get to the crux of the matter.
When a local forum runs its course, and stops adapting to the changing population of the area it covers, and allows political and personal beliefs to drive how it is run, it can start to lose its following. Failure or refusal to allow certain topics or opinions to be aired can also lead to a very closed environment, and become unattractive to not only the current local residents and users, but also to the every growing new population.
So another one pops up, fresh and open minded. It starts to attract your current audience, and gathers pace rapidly. The two ways to approach it are a/ keep going, its no threat, its a different approach, or b/ go to war and throw everything you have at it, including your dignity.
Having been at the forefront of forums, from back in early 2000 until about 2006 running a very popular online community. Lots of people and opinions. Lots of random conversations turning into life changing matters. Friendships forged, leading to marriage and the birth of children. I think it's fair to say that it was quite challenging. But with the birth of Facebook, and the changing times, the day came when it was done. Allowing that to happen progressively, and folding at the right time meant I retained all the friendships I had made, and the whole venture is remembered fondly.
In this case, the local community is not following this model, and instead of being sensible about it, and rolling with things, the owner has decided war is the only way.
Now, let me be honest here. As the plates started falling, the right thing to do is salvage what you can, then start putting plates back on poles, newer more colourful ones, and attract the crowd back. If you want to fight hard, go for it, but show you have something worth fighting for. Don't start throwing plate fragments, hitting your old audience with them, and hope they will come back to see the same old show again.
Sadly, this is not the approach taken, and rather than going with a two pronged approach of promotion and revamping, a route of "destroy the other forum" has been taken.
Reporting of advertising to local authorities, sock puppet accounts on the new forum, trying to stir things up, only to run away and ask for it all to be removed again, constant changing of topic names on the old forum to mimic the new one, buying Google Adwords relating to the new one and pointing them at your own forum, buying domain names again hoping to snare people looking for the other one.
As someone recently said, "imitation is the greatest form of flattery" , and it IS ! So very true.
Sadly it doesn't end with imitation, and goes further to manipulation. Messing around with Wikipedia editing entries in your favour, deleting entries by the new forum, rewording entries to your own advantage. Lets get something straight, Wikipedia is NOT a playground, or somewhere childish battles should be fought. Now it is starting to get pathetic, and borderline personal.
So, Steve....
Where does all this end?
I know there is a strong revenue stream for you from your forum, somehow managing to bamboozle your advertisers into believing that the 40,000 visitors a month (85-90% of which are search bots I presume) and the 6,000 members (of which about 15 still use the forum, and 1,500 are probably sock puppet accounts of your own and others) somehow generate value for money. Surely anyone with any dignity and common sense can see that the interaction on the forum has dropped away to a borderline sustainable level now. But I suppose as long as you can keep prying money out of their hands, you feel like it is a worthwhile venture to keep going.
Sadly, it seems, that actually giving a toss about the local community and their needs is the bottom of the importance list now, if even still on it at all. If it were of any interest, I am sure the forum would have been upgraded over time, and offered more to its user than admin filtered PM's, personal vendettas with users occasionally blocking their account as you don't like what they said, and disappearing posts because they don't interest you, you don't agree with them, or simply don't like the person who posted it.... Without ever meeting them, that's the hilarious part.
When the new forum popped up, it was launched with the intention of filling a gap in the online resources of the local community. A friendly and social approach to get people working together with others in their community, and a fresh spin on an old idea. Getting people out from behind their screens, being real people not just a user name, and creating a happy and self supporting community for the SE23 area.
Not a threat, not a take-down, not a local coup, just something new. Plenty of space for both to co-exist, with the option along the way to work together or benefit from the growth.
What we have ended up with instead is a full on pissing contest. The old vs the new. Offended somehow that someone else would dare to offer the local community (in which they live) a breath of fresh air, and some new options. It is an evolving world where options are obligatory, and people expect to be giving a choice. So to somehow take offence that this would happen is a little small minded.
Surely if you felt that you had something real to offer SE23, you would make an honest and open stand. Come out from behind the "Admin" moniker , speak openly, have your say and show you care. Stand up for the cause you apparently believe in so much.
Rather than hiding behind fake forum accounts, sabotaging online references, and trying to trick people onto your forum by using pseudonyms similar to the new forum. All I see so far are cowardly sucker punches in the dark, which consist of damaging the name of an upstart, rather than justifying the continued use and following of what is quite frankly an old, tired forum which exists on fitting in with the online clique.
I hope that the stupid behaviour ends soon, and the people of SE23 can make a good, honest, well educated decision of which forum is right for them, and maybe even use both.
On a serious note, do things openly and in your own name. If you truly believe you are fighting for a good honest cause, do it with dignity, and show the community you are trying to convince you care, that you really do!
As for the advertisers...
PLEASE NOTE..
These are the sole opinions and comments of Michael Snasdell (real name, feel free to Google me) and not those of any other forum for the SE23 area, or anywhere else.
Any name calling is driven by my own opinions and interactions (online) with Steve Shaw and se23(dot)com
For me, going out gracefully, and being remembered for your greatness and service is far more appealing that throwing tantrums and having to be removed by security. Remembered only for that last childish outburst.
Of course, the reasons for falling from the top are plentiful, so I suppose your actions are sometimes determined by what happened to bring it all about.
Imagine, spinning plates, putting on an amazing show and gathering a crowd to watch your amazing show. As the crowds gather, and the spotlight gets brighter, you lose concentration on the plates.
As the first one hits the floor, you turn in panic to react to the situation, frantically running back and forth trying to keep things going. One by one, they drop and smash, until finally you have managed to get 10% of them safely spinning again.
Turning back to your adorning crowd, unsurprisingly most are gone!
Looking to where they have gone, you see them across the way at a different attraction. Not plate spinning, but juggling. So you have two choices, keep your plates spinning, and protect what you have left. Keep the remaining audience happy. Or take your plates down, give up on your show, and start throwing them at the juggler and its audience, hoping to take them down as well as yourself. The old "if I can't have it, you can't have it" play.
Usually if you go with the latter, you tend to be remembered for your last actions, and not the shows before that.
By now you are probably wondering what the hell I am talking about, so let's cut the bullshit, and get to the crux of the matter.
When a local forum runs its course, and stops adapting to the changing population of the area it covers, and allows political and personal beliefs to drive how it is run, it can start to lose its following. Failure or refusal to allow certain topics or opinions to be aired can also lead to a very closed environment, and become unattractive to not only the current local residents and users, but also to the every growing new population.
So another one pops up, fresh and open minded. It starts to attract your current audience, and gathers pace rapidly. The two ways to approach it are a/ keep going, its no threat, its a different approach, or b/ go to war and throw everything you have at it, including your dignity.
Having been at the forefront of forums, from back in early 2000 until about 2006 running a very popular online community. Lots of people and opinions. Lots of random conversations turning into life changing matters. Friendships forged, leading to marriage and the birth of children. I think it's fair to say that it was quite challenging. But with the birth of Facebook, and the changing times, the day came when it was done. Allowing that to happen progressively, and folding at the right time meant I retained all the friendships I had made, and the whole venture is remembered fondly.
In this case, the local community is not following this model, and instead of being sensible about it, and rolling with things, the owner has decided war is the only way.
Now, let me be honest here. As the plates started falling, the right thing to do is salvage what you can, then start putting plates back on poles, newer more colourful ones, and attract the crowd back. If you want to fight hard, go for it, but show you have something worth fighting for. Don't start throwing plate fragments, hitting your old audience with them, and hope they will come back to see the same old show again.
Sadly, this is not the approach taken, and rather than going with a two pronged approach of promotion and revamping, a route of "destroy the other forum" has been taken.
Reporting of advertising to local authorities, sock puppet accounts on the new forum, trying to stir things up, only to run away and ask for it all to be removed again, constant changing of topic names on the old forum to mimic the new one, buying Google Adwords relating to the new one and pointing them at your own forum, buying domain names again hoping to snare people looking for the other one.
As someone recently said, "imitation is the greatest form of flattery" , and it IS ! So very true.
Sadly it doesn't end with imitation, and goes further to manipulation. Messing around with Wikipedia editing entries in your favour, deleting entries by the new forum, rewording entries to your own advantage. Lets get something straight, Wikipedia is NOT a playground, or somewhere childish battles should be fought. Now it is starting to get pathetic, and borderline personal.
So, Steve....
Where does all this end?
I know there is a strong revenue stream for you from your forum, somehow managing to bamboozle your advertisers into believing that the 40,000 visitors a month (85-90% of which are search bots I presume) and the 6,000 members (of which about 15 still use the forum, and 1,500 are probably sock puppet accounts of your own and others) somehow generate value for money. Surely anyone with any dignity and common sense can see that the interaction on the forum has dropped away to a borderline sustainable level now. But I suppose as long as you can keep prying money out of their hands, you feel like it is a worthwhile venture to keep going.
Sadly, it seems, that actually giving a toss about the local community and their needs is the bottom of the importance list now, if even still on it at all. If it were of any interest, I am sure the forum would have been upgraded over time, and offered more to its user than admin filtered PM's, personal vendettas with users occasionally blocking their account as you don't like what they said, and disappearing posts because they don't interest you, you don't agree with them, or simply don't like the person who posted it.... Without ever meeting them, that's the hilarious part.
When the new forum popped up, it was launched with the intention of filling a gap in the online resources of the local community. A friendly and social approach to get people working together with others in their community, and a fresh spin on an old idea. Getting people out from behind their screens, being real people not just a user name, and creating a happy and self supporting community for the SE23 area.
Not a threat, not a take-down, not a local coup, just something new. Plenty of space for both to co-exist, with the option along the way to work together or benefit from the growth.
What we have ended up with instead is a full on pissing contest. The old vs the new. Offended somehow that someone else would dare to offer the local community (in which they live) a breath of fresh air, and some new options. It is an evolving world where options are obligatory, and people expect to be giving a choice. So to somehow take offence that this would happen is a little small minded.
Surely if you felt that you had something real to offer SE23, you would make an honest and open stand. Come out from behind the "Admin" moniker , speak openly, have your say and show you care. Stand up for the cause you apparently believe in so much.
Rather than hiding behind fake forum accounts, sabotaging online references, and trying to trick people onto your forum by using pseudonyms similar to the new forum. All I see so far are cowardly sucker punches in the dark, which consist of damaging the name of an upstart, rather than justifying the continued use and following of what is quite frankly an old, tired forum which exists on fitting in with the online clique.
I hope that the stupid behaviour ends soon, and the people of SE23 can make a good, honest, well educated decision of which forum is right for them, and maybe even use both.
On a serious note, do things openly and in your own name. If you truly believe you are fighting for a good honest cause, do it with dignity, and show the community you are trying to convince you care, that you really do!
As for the advertisers...
PLEASE NOTE..
These are the sole opinions and comments of Michael Snasdell (real name, feel free to Google me) and not those of any other forum for the SE23 area, or anywhere else.
Any name calling is driven by my own opinions and interactions (online) with Steve Shaw and se23(dot)com
Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Oops, I appear to have been shot...
...by the Police for 'no apparent reason'
I am sick, to death ironically enough, of people whining about people who get shot by the police. Yes there are rules to observe, and guidelines to follow, but seriously!
A young man was recently shot locally to me, after being challenged by the Police in the early hours, and the outcry has amazed me. For god sakes people wake the hell up. The Police didn't rock up and shoot a man who was casually walking down the road. The challenged him numerous times, and a whole chain of events led to him being shot 5 times. Thankfully for him, no mortal wounding.
This whole 'oooh look he is a graduate' malarky just annoys me no end. I'm pretty sure Hitler was good at maths, Saddam Hussain probably ok at History, and who knows maybe Fred West was a clever chappy too. But what the hell has an education got to do with this? IF you want to use education as a platform, let's... Any educated person who is instructed by the police to stop and put their hands up does. Any person with any common sense would see a gun and comply, PERIOD... So what's that we were saying about an education?
I know there are people who feel oppressed by the government, and ruled with an iron fist by the police, and to those I say, WAKEY WAKEY you arse clown! Get out there, spend some time in the real society we live in, get involved, help others. I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying the same group who cry foul play, are the same people who turn away, refuse to give statements, and won't get involved if its not directly affecting them.
There are always cases where things go terribly wrong, Jean Charles DeMenezes was a classic example of this, where information was tangled up and an 'innocent' man lost his life. No one can undo what happened that day, however I don't think one case in any way similar has ever been seen. That of course doesn't stop social commentators from making comparisons between other shootings.
I have recently read a blog where it WAS compared, and believed to be a good comparison. 'George' the perfect student from Forest Hill, compared to JCD. Not sure there was a high terror alert the other week, nor that 'George' was suspected of carrying a bomb, but if you think they are similar, fair enough...... Idiot!
Then we have Mark Duggan, another example of someone with no respect for authority, a tarnished record, and a poor decision making process can bring upon themselves.
I could go on and on, but at some point we have to decide if we approve or disapprove of the Police, them carrying firearms, and of course if we understand that actions have consequences. It would appear some do not.
Personally I have no problem with the police. Hell I applied to join, so can't hate them too much. Of course there are rotten apples in there, those who will taint the reputation of the masses. There are of course rules that get in the way of our fun, like speed limits, not being allowed to take whatever you want, when you want, and it being naughty to take or sell drugs. It will always be the case that regardless of the crime, the cry will always be 'go catch some real criminals'.
We of course forget all of this hatred and disrespect when someone else upsets us, noisy neighbours, we lose something, or anything else we suddenly want the polices help with.
Just like firearms officers CO19, its all very well saying its too much, that its wrong to carry firearms etc.... Until something happens that requires a fast and firm response. I also read many comments on this subject suggesting there were 'other options' when it came to disarming and taking 'George' into custody. Now I don't know if you have ever tried taking a stick off an excited child, flailing it about.... That can hurt. Now try taking a baseball bat off an angry man.. Its quite long and seems to hurt when it makes contact with you. Now sharpen said object and suddenly the thought of just wading in with your little metal asp suddenly seems quite dangerous to your own wellbeing.
Maybe if person flailing the object were to obey the orders from the police, no one would get hit or hurt. But if that person ignores all the requests, orders or commands to drop..... Something bad is gonna happen.
If you are an expert in disarming people with guns or large bladed weapons, save a dirty criminals life, and offer to disarm them for the police next time the chance arises.
What's the worst that can happen, the Darwin Awards is always looking for applicants, and you certainly seem dumb enough.
I have said my peace. If you have a gun pointed at you, or the police ask/tell you to stand still, put something down, kneel down etc...... Just do it, rather than being a whining little bitch that moans about what happens next!
Sent using BlackBerry®
I am sick, to death ironically enough, of people whining about people who get shot by the police. Yes there are rules to observe, and guidelines to follow, but seriously!
A young man was recently shot locally to me, after being challenged by the Police in the early hours, and the outcry has amazed me. For god sakes people wake the hell up. The Police didn't rock up and shoot a man who was casually walking down the road. The challenged him numerous times, and a whole chain of events led to him being shot 5 times. Thankfully for him, no mortal wounding.
This whole 'oooh look he is a graduate' malarky just annoys me no end. I'm pretty sure Hitler was good at maths, Saddam Hussain probably ok at History, and who knows maybe Fred West was a clever chappy too. But what the hell has an education got to do with this? IF you want to use education as a platform, let's... Any educated person who is instructed by the police to stop and put their hands up does. Any person with any common sense would see a gun and comply, PERIOD... So what's that we were saying about an education?
I know there are people who feel oppressed by the government, and ruled with an iron fist by the police, and to those I say, WAKEY WAKEY you arse clown! Get out there, spend some time in the real society we live in, get involved, help others. I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying the same group who cry foul play, are the same people who turn away, refuse to give statements, and won't get involved if its not directly affecting them.
There are always cases where things go terribly wrong, Jean Charles DeMenezes was a classic example of this, where information was tangled up and an 'innocent' man lost his life. No one can undo what happened that day, however I don't think one case in any way similar has ever been seen. That of course doesn't stop social commentators from making comparisons between other shootings.
I have recently read a blog where it WAS compared, and believed to be a good comparison. 'George' the perfect student from Forest Hill, compared to JCD. Not sure there was a high terror alert the other week, nor that 'George' was suspected of carrying a bomb, but if you think they are similar, fair enough...... Idiot!
Then we have Mark Duggan, another example of someone with no respect for authority, a tarnished record, and a poor decision making process can bring upon themselves.
I could go on and on, but at some point we have to decide if we approve or disapprove of the Police, them carrying firearms, and of course if we understand that actions have consequences. It would appear some do not.
Personally I have no problem with the police. Hell I applied to join, so can't hate them too much. Of course there are rotten apples in there, those who will taint the reputation of the masses. There are of course rules that get in the way of our fun, like speed limits, not being allowed to take whatever you want, when you want, and it being naughty to take or sell drugs. It will always be the case that regardless of the crime, the cry will always be 'go catch some real criminals'.
We of course forget all of this hatred and disrespect when someone else upsets us, noisy neighbours, we lose something, or anything else we suddenly want the polices help with.
Just like firearms officers CO19, its all very well saying its too much, that its wrong to carry firearms etc.... Until something happens that requires a fast and firm response. I also read many comments on this subject suggesting there were 'other options' when it came to disarming and taking 'George' into custody. Now I don't know if you have ever tried taking a stick off an excited child, flailing it about.... That can hurt. Now try taking a baseball bat off an angry man.. Its quite long and seems to hurt when it makes contact with you. Now sharpen said object and suddenly the thought of just wading in with your little metal asp suddenly seems quite dangerous to your own wellbeing.
Maybe if person flailing the object were to obey the orders from the police, no one would get hit or hurt. But if that person ignores all the requests, orders or commands to drop..... Something bad is gonna happen.
If you are an expert in disarming people with guns or large bladed weapons, save a dirty criminals life, and offer to disarm them for the police next time the chance arises.
What's the worst that can happen, the Darwin Awards is always looking for applicants, and you certainly seem dumb enough.
I have said my peace. If you have a gun pointed at you, or the police ask/tell you to stand still, put something down, kneel down etc...... Just do it, rather than being a whining little bitch that moans about what happens next!
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Monday, February 20, 2012
Man in Forest Hill, SE23 shot by CO19 officers
Well before I get started here is the link to the actual story.
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16172991
The first thing that struck me were some of the pity filled responses and comments on the actual news story. Trying to make out that the Met Police have in some way done something wrong. What was reassuring though was the fact that there were many who also thought he deserved everything he got.
Lets look at the 'facts' we are presented with. A young man goes out onto the streets in the early morning with the intention of committing crime. He arms himself with a number of weapons in the form of bladed weapons. When he is caught in the act of breaking into a car he is challenged and the police are informed.
The police then attend the area, find the person involved and attempt to detain him. On doing so they are threatened with a large bladed weapon, so they call for CO19 (armed police) A period of time will have no doubt passed from the call going to CO19, to them arriving on the scene. At any point in this time the man could have stopped being threatening, and given himself up..... He chose not to.
On their arrival they will have run through some basic talk downs to diffuse the situation, he could have given up then.... He didn't! Then the taser was deployed. By this point its clear things are getting serious, and there are not many other options left. Regardless of if the taser was effective or not, this should have triggered a thought process in the persons head that soon they may get shot. For some reason it didn't!
At the end of the stand-off shots were eventually fired, and the man wounded and taken into custody. All I have heard all day is why didn't the police take limb shots, why didn't they do other things. Do none of the people saying this realise how dangerous the situation could have become? Some weird belief that the police went out with the intention to shoot this idiot.
I have personally seen a man carrying two axes down a busy road, called the police and waited on scene. 2 officers with no PPE on dealt with the situation, and took the dangerous guy down. So its obvious that they use their options, and don't take shooting people lightly.
So if you are one of the idiots saying the police were wrong, the police were heavy handed, the police could have just taken the guy down..... HUSH! put yourself in their position and see what options you would choose.
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16172991
The first thing that struck me were some of the pity filled responses and comments on the actual news story. Trying to make out that the Met Police have in some way done something wrong. What was reassuring though was the fact that there were many who also thought he deserved everything he got.
Lets look at the 'facts' we are presented with. A young man goes out onto the streets in the early morning with the intention of committing crime. He arms himself with a number of weapons in the form of bladed weapons. When he is caught in the act of breaking into a car he is challenged and the police are informed.
The police then attend the area, find the person involved and attempt to detain him. On doing so they are threatened with a large bladed weapon, so they call for CO19 (armed police) A period of time will have no doubt passed from the call going to CO19, to them arriving on the scene. At any point in this time the man could have stopped being threatening, and given himself up..... He chose not to.
On their arrival they will have run through some basic talk downs to diffuse the situation, he could have given up then.... He didn't! Then the taser was deployed. By this point its clear things are getting serious, and there are not many other options left. Regardless of if the taser was effective or not, this should have triggered a thought process in the persons head that soon they may get shot. For some reason it didn't!
At the end of the stand-off shots were eventually fired, and the man wounded and taken into custody. All I have heard all day is why didn't the police take limb shots, why didn't they do other things. Do none of the people saying this realise how dangerous the situation could have become? Some weird belief that the police went out with the intention to shoot this idiot.
I have personally seen a man carrying two axes down a busy road, called the police and waited on scene. 2 officers with no PPE on dealt with the situation, and took the dangerous guy down. So its obvious that they use their options, and don't take shooting people lightly.
So if you are one of the idiots saying the police were wrong, the police were heavy handed, the police could have just taken the guy down..... HUSH! put yourself in their position and see what options you would choose.
Tuesday, November 1, 2011
How the hell....
I walk this road daily while walking my dogs, sometimes straight up from where the distant shot was taken from, and other times emerging from the side road where the accident begun.
So let's hypothesise how all this happened shall we... Here is my take on it.
The Saab enters from the bottom of Kemble Road, picking up speed as it travels up the road. This road is a rat run, and the poor traffic calming just encourage it really. As the Saab approaches Loxton Road, about 75 metres up on its right, a Mini begins to emerge. I can only assume at this point there was a misjudgement of intention and speed, and the Mini is now 45 degrees into the path of the Saab.
The first impact occurs Saab offside front to Mini nearside door, punching the Mini off to the right, and causing the Saab to veer to the left (more than it already may be doing for evasive action.
As the Saab moves left it now makes a second impact with a parked Fiesta, this time Saab nearside front to Fiesta offside door. This impact heavier that that to the Mini, joins the cars together for a moment, causing the Saab to drag the Fiesta up the road a little causing the Fiesta's frontal impact with the tree. This impact frees the cars once again and the Saab now missing its nearside drive components, grinds to a halt.
Meanwhile on the other side of the road the Mini comes to rest quite firmly in the rear end of the 4th vehicle involved, this time a parked Micra.
My biggest worry is I know people who live on this junction, and I quite frequently stand and chat on the adjacent pavements. The sheer scattering of cars and debris could have caused nasty injuries to passing pedestrians.
The next concern is speed. I would say I'm not pointing fingers here, but the fact is I AM! Given the speed limit on the road, and the position of the cars post-accident, I would have to say the manner the Saab was driven is was almost reckless. Travelling @ 20mph, the impact with the Mini alone would have been almost enough to stop the Saab in its tracks. The fact it managed to punt the Mini so hard, and so far out of its way suggests there was either no time to react, or there was speed involved..
But that's not all. Not only was there such a violent punt, but then the Saab managed to carry enough speed (one would assume now under braking) that it struck a parked car further up the road. Again, under normal circumstances I would expect the second impact with a this time stationary object to end the motion of the car. However once again it doesn't. The impact is violent enough to embed the Saab in the Fiesta, transfer motion into the stationary and one would assume secured Fiesta. So much energy transfer that it managed to propel the Fiesta at a great enough speed into a nearby tree to cause extensive damage to the front of the vehicle.
NOW... The Saab is STILL carrying enough inertia to keep going still, separating from the Fiesta and continuing another car length before finally coming to rest. Assuming throughout this accident a reasonable reaction was made to try and stop the vehicle, the distance travelled and damage caused is quite astounding.
So, people of Forest Hill, and those who travel through it or to it for work.... Slow down eh!
I'm not for one second here saying the Mini didn't fail to look left, and pulled straight into the path of the Saab, causing an immediate, heavy impact. But I would say the damage from the subsequent impacts indicate the Saab was doing more than the posted 20. Maybe its time that Kemble Road was furnished with full length speed humps.?
OK, so just for a little clarification of the start and finish positions of the vehicles were, here is a little diagram.
Arrows are starting points of cars, rectangles end points. Stars are impacts (pink 1st, red 2nd.) Colours of symbols refer to the colour of the vehicle.
Hopefully this demonstrates the distance travelled by the Saab in total, and the road layout and markings.
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